the price of gas going up, up, up...some crude facts....

Things that don't fit anywhere else...

Postby the dog » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:37 am

kayakrguy wrote:Well, 'we' didn't do it without a lot of help from the oil companies, the auto manufacturers and the government--eg--the one the oil companies and the manufacturers bought and used to promote the gas guzzling, inefficient machines we use today as we dispersed into the wild and wooly suburbs on those roads that the oil companies and auto companies and contractors and Dwight Eisenhower and the Congress built to encourage us to disperse. The choked off public transport and killed efforts to make more efficient cars.

We did not do this all by our little ol' selves and your idea that we're going to do this by just driving 3K miles a year is a non-starter. It will take the same political will, capital investment and public policies to change our transportation grid as it took to create the mess we are in today. If you leave government and politics and economics out of the equation you're being naive.


Govt, politics and economics? They didn't put a gun to anyones head. Blaming doesn't fix anything.

I thought I conveyed it wasn't just gas consumption but overall energy consumption.

My 3K was a clear example of "not to point blame" and you turn right around and blame me for something I did not say. Where did I suggest everyone drive 3K? I don't see it, please show me what you accuse me of saying.

We need to cut energy in all ways. If we all cut usage we win. 3 watt night light instead of 4 watt doesn't seem like much but what if a billion people did that and more. Bring cloth bags to the grocer or bring back the plastic for reuse. It all matters. Dog
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Postby pete.wilson » Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:11 pm

Hey

This is the kind of stupidity that makes me see red. In 2002 I drove a full size Chevy blazer to montana and paid between $1.25 to $1.60 a gallon for gas and thought how bad it was out west when gas was a $1.60; it's only been that last 2 years that gas has started out of control and if you do the research we aren't using more gas it's just we have more competition for the same amount of oil. Inventories of oil aren't down, there about the same as where they usually at and there has been no problems like Katrina which was the only reason gas spiked two years ago. Speculation in the oil market has increased a great deal driving up prices (energy futures markets driven by hedge funds) as an offset against our struggling economy. The Fed lowers interest rates to slow it down but more speculation dumps it (money) into oil because the prices are going up, which in turn continues to make the econmy worse, it becomes a self defeating problem, which had almost nothing to do with what vehicles we drive and gas mileage or how much money oil companies make; what they make is a by-product of all hedge fund investing.
First of all most countries in Europe have their own goverments which are the size of our states and they have no even larger federal goverment dictating what, when and how they can do certain things. With regards to their rediculous taxes; if you want their form of goverment then move there! We don't have our cities as close together as they do, and when we were developing our country; spending money for public transportation systems wasn't needed, instead we created highways for our personal vehicle ownership. It's all about our how and when we developed in the mechanical age. Up until now, we had low fuel costs so it wasn't a problem and really our fuel problems has only been in the last 2-3 years (hindsight at this point is always 20/20). If fuel useage dropped by 10 percent tomorrow, prices will not go down any appreciable amount. The worst thing about all this is the fact that we are being forced to do what we don't want to do (gas prices went up and then back down and we saw a explosion of truck and SUV sales..so what it's about the right of personal choice. I don't what some 2 cylinder 500lb car that get 100miles per gallon. Why some ask? Why should I be forced into something I don't want. What if the goverment came out and made it illegal for you to live more than 15 miles from your place of work? Would like like that? It's about having choices and people in Europe blindly accept their $6-7 taxes on top of their $2 gallon gasoline because they don't know any better, well we left Europe and formed our own country in 1776 and formed our own goverment because we wanted a better choice. I have a right to do what I want, buy what I want, live where I want, do what I want without someone telling me I have to. It's time we get smart about who we elect and if they don't whats best for america then string them up and get them out of there (maybe you should read the Constitution and the preamble again). It's time that our goverment works for us the american people. Just like social security, it could be there for all of us if we held politicians feet to the fire and not allow illegal immigrants access to it who have never paid into it. Keep Guns and hunting legal, keep certain christian principles which our country was founded, respect one another and help your neighbor when he is in need and have politicians that do whats best for our country. All of our problems come down to a lack of moral judgement and the love of money. But we have the greatest country in the world, the most freedoms of the world, has made this world a better place, offer a home to those that come here Legally, still has a great political setup and is worth returning power to the american people. On personal note: kayakrguy, if you don't like the US, living here, making a living here, raising your family here or enjoying the freedoms you have here, the right to freedom of speech here or think it's worth saving, then save my air and move to Europe, maybe you'll be happier there! I will even pay for your ticket out of here!!!!!!!

Pete Wilson

P.S. To everyone else I will apologize for my thoughts.
Why hasn't anyone found a dead bigfoot? When was the last time you found a dead deer, bear, coyote, fox, squirrel, etc. that died in the woods.........Hmmm.
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Postby Dewayne_Mellen » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:58 pm

Several years ago it was estimated that half the lands in the US whould have to be used for wind generators to power the east cost of the US. The rest of the US would have to find some other form of energy. The rest of the lands do not produce enough wind to run a wind generator. Plus the generators blades would kill most of the migrating birds the environment impact would be enormous.


My understanding with the wind generator and bird kills is that 30-40 years ago they made a wind farm with fast moving blades in the worst possible spot in the entire US for killing birds. New wind farms have blades that move slower so there are very few birds killed if any.
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Re: Gasoline Prices around the world...

Postby PaulC » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:14 am

PaulC wrote:
kayakrguy wrote:Global gas prices «Click column headings to re-sort»
City Effective Date Price in USD
Regular/Gallon
Nation City Price
AUSTRALIA SYDNEY $2.63


I'm a little sceptical here as my conversion, based on our current rate of $1.49AUD per litre, converts to $5.10USD for a gallon

Cheers
Paul :thumbsup:

I see most of you chose to ignore this.
Excuse me for being cynical here but, all I see is the typical American attitude coming to the fore.
I suggest you all stop whinging about it and do something constructive.
Remember that bloke who said "One small step for man" etc. Maybe that's what you all should be doing.
And I don't mean flying to the moon :lol:
Cheers
Paul :thumbsup:
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Re: Gasoline Prices around the world...

Postby the dog » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:47 am

PaulC wrote:
Cheers
Paul :thumbsup:

I see most of you chose to ignore this.
Excuse me for being cynical here but, all I see is the typical American attitude coming to the fore.
I suggest you all stop whinging about it and do something constructive.
Remember that bloke who said "One small step for man" etc. Maybe that's what you all should be doing.
And I don't mean flying to the moon :lol:
Cheers
Paul :thumbsup:
[/quote]

It's not an "American Attitude", it's a Liberals Attitude. Blame everyone else, twist context, accept no responsibility. Full of mouth but no action, shotgun mouths BB gun butts. Were not all liberals. Dog
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Postby the dog » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:57 am

pete.wilson wrote: kayakrguy, if you don't like the US, living here, making a living here, raising your family here or enjoying the freedoms you have here, the right to freedom of speech here or think it's worth saving, then save my air and move to Europe, maybe you'll be happier there! I will even pay for your ticket out of here!!!!!!!

Pete Wilson

P.S. To everyone else I will apologize for my thoughts.


Don't apologize, there's too much PC as it is. Just speak the bare truth and if someone is offended it may jog them into a wake up call. Dog
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my utility bills

Postby eamarquardt » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:48 am

Don't know what others spend but my natural gas bill is $10 per month and electrcity is about $90 per month year round. I am confortable year round with out heat or a/c for the most part. I may turn on the heat occasionally to take the real chill off (last winter it got down to 42 in the house) and I think about running the a/c for about a week each year and during extreem heat waves may run it for 3 maybe 4 days each year. I had the a/c wired by the power company with a remote switch so they can turn it off at will (got $200 from them for doing so).

I drive a mini van but would rather have a smaller vehicle but need one to tow my utility trailer and eventually the teardrop. I've never owned a vehicle with more than 6 cylinders, most have been 4 bangers. At one point everything I owned (BMW, Toyota, and VW) were powered by diesel. I have to have a vehicle that I can make a bed in as sometimes the pain I experince is so severe the only way I can ride in a vehicle is lying down. Thinking next vehicle will be a small American made truck, V6, and I will modify the suspension (if possible) so that it rides smoother and doesn't agravate my already frazzled nerves. I rarely start the engine in my van unless I have at least three erands to run.

I try. A friend has a bumper sticker (he lives in Santa Cruz County and his family owns a sawmill which doesn't go over too well there). It says "Everybody wants to get back to nature, but no one wants to walk".

I agree, we could reduce our energy costs significantly with very little effort.

Cheers,

Gus
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I forgot to mention

Postby eamarquardt » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:58 am

I'd like to see a practical form of public transportation. Here is So.Cal. the only way to effectively get around is POV. Rail is by far the most effective means to move people and freight. America is letting it's rail system to to pot. I have never used a train here in the US to make a trip (other than a field trip to Santa Barbara with my son's school). Even then, as I recall, the furthest the train from So.Cal. went north was Santa Barbara.

If two or more people are traveling somewhere here, it is still cheaper to drive (at 20 miles per gallon). This needs to be fixed. Why can't you buy a "Honda 50" for short errands around town. The smallest street bike you can buy now is about 400cc. When I was in high school I had a 90cc. I went everywhere on it. From the San Fernando Valley to Maliby and beyond.

We can do better. I do agree Arnold and the rest of the politicians need to get rid of laws that make it impractical for us to have small motorcycles and fix the rail system. I'd use it.

Cheers,

Gus
The opinions in this post are my own. My comments are directed to those that might like an alternative approach to those already espoused.There is the right way,the wrong way,the USMC way, your way, my way, and the highway.
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Postby BrwBier » Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:31 am

I was wondering, if we all cut our energy consumption by 50% would the energy companies accept the loss of profit or would they raise the price to offset the loss. And when we do find new ways to power everything will those people charge us less to produce the same amount of power?
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Postby pete.wilson » Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:59 am

Hey

I think the idea of conserving energy is good, so is recycling but at the same time I don't want to be forced into doing something by the goverment. Lets take a what if.......What is they said everyone in the US can no longer own or drive a vehicle that gets less than 20 miles per gallon, I would be highly upset about that. Just for a moment thinks what that would impact things. How many people would then be farther in debt buying new or newer cars....Not good, no more hot rod shows, monster trucks, SUV's , mini vans, etc. Nobody likes to think about the long term ramification of such actions, oh it sounds good up front or when it doesn't affect you but what about our children, what are they gonna have. People need to get away from short term, emotional based thinking and think about long term. How will this decision affect our long term outlook; if it's positive then go for it, if not then maybe either a different approach or not do it. And as we see with our friends across the great pond do we here really want to pay as much taxes as they do. I for one do not; the reason is that once a tax is added and the goverment likes the extra money you will NEVER be able to get it removed.

The other issue facing the world is our so called "global warming" who is going to tell China and India who are booming that they HAVE to meet certain emissions? It shouldn't the US or anybody else to tell them what to do, and we know how useless the UN is.

The energy analyst reported something like 3.7percent drop in gasoline used in Califronia but did your price go down...oh no, no drop what so ever. We could drop 10 percent in the uS and the only thing it would mean is out oil company would make slightly less money and some other part of the world bought our 10 percent share. If it wasn't for the mad rush in speculation on oil, the price of a barrel oil would be in the $50-60 range.


Pete Wilson
Last edited by pete.wilson on Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Why hasn't anyone found a dead bigfoot? When was the last time you found a dead deer, bear, coyote, fox, squirrel, etc. that died in the woods.........Hmmm.
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Postby Miriam C. » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:06 am

BrwBier wrote:I was wondering, if we all cut our energy consumption by 50% would the energy companies accept the loss of profit or would they raise the price to offset the loss. And when we do find new ways to power everything will those people charge us less to produce the same amount of power?
Brwbier


That is like asking if the finance companies and bankers are going to forgo their bonuses after running the banks into the ground. NOT :thumbdown:

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Postby pete.wilson » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:35 am

hey

Part of an article on Yahoo news about our current jump in prices.

Tom Kloza, chief analyst of the Oil Price Information Service, says the recent run-up in oil prices is due more to speculation in the commodities market than to supply shortages and the growing economies and populations in Asia. "The EIA has been steadfast in saying that it's all about supply and demand, but I disagree," Kloza contends.

"It's not the demand from average Joes, but demand from hedge funds, banks, commodities pools and so forth that's responsible for taking crude oil from $70 to $110 a barrel. There are a lot of huge funds that are invested in commodities, and one of their favorites is crude oil.

"I estimate that there's about $25 billion in oil futures — and that's $25 billion speculating on a higher price right now than a lower price," Kloza adds. "I think you'll find a lot of people in the oil industry will agree, and they're not going to complain if Wall Street is carrying the water for them. They've been the beneficiaries of that irrational exuberance."

On another note I read this week stated that like two years ago there was only about $6 billion in oil futures, this is what caused the price of a barrel of oil to increase.


Pete Wilson
Why hasn't anyone found a dead bigfoot? When was the last time you found a dead deer, bear, coyote, fox, squirrel, etc. that died in the woods.........Hmmm.
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I get a kick out of

Postby eamarquardt » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:36 am

I get a kick out of the claims that hybrid cars get such great gas mile when they require being plug in at night to achieve those high mileage figures. Yes they're getting 150 miles driven for each gallon of gas put into their tank, but all of the energy they are using isn't derived from that gallon of gas. I'd like to see some real figures on exactly how much oil, coal, natural gas it is taking for them to go that 150 miles.

Don't be hoodwinked, there is no such thing as a "free lunch' (the first law of thermodynamics). The second law is that you don't even get what you pay for.

Cheers,

Gus
The opinions in this post are my own. My comments are directed to those that might like an alternative approach to those already espoused.There is the right way,the wrong way,the USMC way, your way, my way, and the highway.
"I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it." Klaatu-"The Day the Earth Stood Still"
"You can't handle the truth!"-Jack Nicholson "A Few Good Men"
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Postby Hamcan » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:30 pm

Hey Kayakrguy, congratulations on living in the greatest country on earth and enjoying freedom of speech. Seems odd to me that when you exercise that freedom you get invited to move to Urp, but what the heck you're getting a free ticket! :lol:

On a more somber note: It comes as a terrible shock that my "liberal attitude" turns out to be the cause of all the worlds problems. What was gas in 1999? $30 a barrel. Now +$100. Must be the fault of that damn liberal in the White House!

Regards, JG
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Postby PaulC » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:54 pm

Miriam C. wrote:Lets play a game here. Lets say I work for an oil company or bank (higher up). My company loans me a chunk of money. I "play" the "oil futures game" I make a big profit and my company gets the interest (small) that looks good on paper and all the higher ups get a bonus including me... :thinking: Whats my motive to stop doing this?


I've got no idea, Miriam :? but would you have a spare $50 I could borrow :lol:

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