Bridge Collapses

[Wolf]

"Mother Nature"
What?

Read on:

Silver Bridge Collapse (December 15,1967)
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Bridge ... Bridge.htm

Quebec City Bridge (August 29, 1907)
http://www.civeng.carleton.ca/ECL/repor ... ction.html

Being a native New Yorker I have seen a few bridges in my time. Here are just a few.

Brooklyn Bridge, Built 1870-1883 Still standing!

Williamsburg Bridge, Built 1896-1903 Still standing!

Manhattan Bridge, Built 1901-1909 Still standing!

Queensboro Bridge, Built 1901-1909 Still standing!

George Washington Bridge, Built 1931 Still standing!

Manhattan Bridge, Built 1909 Still standing!

As to the Romans, maybe you need to look into a history book a little closer.

Arch of Constantine, Built 315
Arch of Severus, Built 205
Arch of Titus, Built 81
Markets of Trajan, Built 100-112

All still standing

[raprap]

[quote="Wolf
Silver Bridge Collapse (December 15,1967)
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Bridge ... Bridge.htm[/quote]

Thanks Wolf

The last paragraph from the silver bridge disaster link says it best

Even though the collapse of the Silver Bridge was a disaster, there were positive aspects to the failure. Bridge inspections are now more routine and in-depth because of the Silver Bridge. Engineers are now more knowledgeable about corrosion fatigue and stress corrosion, which allows better quality structures to be designed and built. With today's technology, as well as better design techniques and materials, there is hope that a Silver Bridge disaster will never again take place.

Even though the concluding hope didn't occur for the silver bridge this bridge disaster will probably have a similar consequence.

Rap

[PaulC]

Wolf, even we have a bridge that was built in the 30's that all and sundry have heard about and it's still standing i.e. The Sydney harbour Bridge.
As for the Romans, sure some, and I repeat some, of their stuff is still around but there are many more ruins than there are surviving structures. Plus, if you check the history books, a lot of the stuff they built was short term not long term.
Let's consider man made objects: when they fall into disuse or are neglected, don't they try to return to their natural composition, ergo Mother Nature.
And, as I have previously stated, come up with the facts now and I'll apologise and shut up.
Cheers
Paul

[Wolf]

Paul,

Your right, in a way.

We know the effects of Mother Nature. Snow, ice, rain, temperature changes, add to that heavy loads and deicing and things breakdown.

You put new shingles on a roof so the rain stays on the outside. We should fix bridges before they fall.

"Federal agencies and the American Society of Civil Engineers have documented other problems: Too little money spent on maintaining bridges and other infrastructure; too few inspectors with engineering degrees; and too much reliance on outmoded inspection methods."

If you know that the tires (tyres) on your car are worn out do you keep driving it and until they fail, cause a wreck and kill people or do you fix the problem. The lack on accountability in the USA is appalling.

It was known for a long time that there were problems with this bridge, maybe shutting down some of the lanes to lighten the load may have prevented this.

We can't just blame Mother Nature, everything breaks down at some point and we have a good idea at what rate this happens.

Bridges, steam lines, buildings, dams can't just fail. What are we paying taxes for? The infrastructure is this country is shot. There has to be change. There has to be accountability or we will see more of this kind of thing happening.

The bottom line is we need to change our way of thinking.

[Ira]

My spin is that this is just the human condition:

Men will always be fallible, no one did anything intentionally wrong, and even with the best of intentions and precautions, s*** happens time to time.

Don't mean to minimize this at ALL, incredible tragedy, but we don't live in a perfect world.

[caseydog]

I agree with Wolf. We won't know what really caused the collapse for a few months, but it will not suprise me if we find out that the bridge was not designed to handle the workload it was handling when it failed, and that someone had tried to point that out, but nobody listened.

If the bridge was not designed for today's loads, and you add in it's age, and possibly not enough maintenance, you have a "perfect storm" happening.

I live in one of the most conservative parts of the country, where people always bitch about taxes, and sing the praises of tax cuts. I always get a big laugh, though, when I am in the car with one of these folks, and they complain about the road we are on. "When are THEY going to do somethihng about this road," is the general gist of the comment. HUH?

People want more, but insist on paying less.

CD

[Laredo]

You get what you pay for --- except with tax monies, evidently.

Who here wouldn't rather see our National Guard at home in case of the next hurricane, and the money currently funding Blackwater and Halliburton in Iraq used to fix bridges, roads, courthouses, libraries, parks and recreation areas in the USA?

[caseydog]

Well, it looks like someone may have warned of problems at this bridge....

Six years ago independent engineers at the University of Minnesota warned that the I-35 bridge had “evidence of fatigue on the main truss and floor trusses and said the bridge might collapse if part of the truss gave way under the eight-lane freeway.” In that study, inspectors found some girders had become distorted. The study also stated, "Concern about fatigue cracking in the deck is heightened by a lack of redundancy in the main truss system. Only two planes of the main trusses support the eight lanes of traffic. Therefore, if one member were severed by a fatigue crack, that plane of the main truss would, theoretically, collapse."

A 2005 federal inspection also rated the bridge structurally deficient, giving it a 50 on scale of 100 for structural stability.

The Minnesota Legislature attempted to take corrective action by passing transportation funding bills, but Governor Pawlenty vetoed them. It appears that the Governor has vetoed every legilative bill sent to him to raise taxes to refurbish aging infrastructure.

CD

[asianflava]

My spin is that this is just the human condition:

Men will always be fallible, no one did anything intentionally wrong, and even with the best of intentions and precautions, s*** happens time to time.

Don't mean to minimize this at ALL, incredible tragedy, but we don't live in a perfect world.

Ira, I totally agree. Hopefully they won't beat this dead horse to death. They should find the root cause so that they can prevent it from happening again, not so that they can find someone to blame. Accidents happen unfortunately, some folks lost loved ones in this one.

[Wolf]

No they need to beat this dead horse or it will just happen again, and again, and again. Maybe when/if something like this happens to a loved one of yours your tune would be different. Hey only 160,000+ chances that it will.

[asianflava]

No they need to beat this dead horse or it will just happen again, and again, and again. Maybe when/if something like this happens to a loved one of yours your tune would be different. Hey only 160,000+ chances that it will.

We all take our chances whenever we get into a car. I'm not just talking about bridges either.

[Dave Bob]

No they need to beat this dead horse or it will just happen again, and again, and again. Maybe when/if something like this happens to a loved one of yours your tune would be different. Hey only 160,000+ chances that it will.

My thoughts and prayers are with the folks that lost love ones or were injured in this incident, but I have a lot better chance of being killed or maimed by a reckless or drunk driver than to be hurt by a bridge collapsing.

While I am not trying to minimize this accident, use a little common sense. I for one will continue to us bridges without contending with all the hysterics and fear mongering.

Dave

[PaulC]

No they need to beat this dead horse or it will just happen again, and again, and again. Maybe when/if something like this happens to a loved one of yours your tune would be different. Hey only 160,000+ chances that it will.

My thoughts and prayers are with the folks that lost love ones or were injured in this incident, but I have a lot better chance of being killed or maimed by a reckless or drunk driver than to be hurt by a bridge collapsing.

While I am not trying to minimize this accident, use a little common sense. I for one will continue to us bridges without contending with all the hysterics and fear mongering.

Dave

Well said Dave
Cheers
Paul

[Wolf]

I'm not hysteric or fear mongering. My point is that if someone causes someone else's injury or death for whatever reason they should be held accountable in some way. If I work on your car and it causes a wreck and kills somebody do you just say "$#it happens"?

Yes I will also use bridges, cars, trains, and planes.

But hey, just go back to your life as you know it, in a few weeks from now it will all be forgotten by all but a handful of people anyway.

Human nature, it didn't happen to me, it don't count.

"Even though the collapse of the Silver Bridge was a disaster, there were positive aspects to the failure. Bridge inspections are now more routine and in-depth because of the Silver Bridge. Engineers are now more knowledgeable about corrosion fatigue and stress corrosion, which allows better quality structures to be designed and built. With today's technology, as well as better design techniques and materials, there is hope that a Silver Bridge disaster will never again take place."

Funny thing that was written 40 years ago!


Maybe the Freemasons are right?

[Ira]

I'm not hysteric or fear mongering. My point is that if someone causes someone else's injury or death for whatever reason they should be held accountable in some way. If I work on your car and it causes a wreck and kills somebody do you just say "$#it happens"?

Believe me--we all get your point, but even with 100% good intentions and efforts, a great mechanic can STILL make a huge mistake and cause injury, so that's a good analogy:

My mechanic's wife just left him…he found out his 16-year-old daughter eloped with a guy named "Seven"…and his dog just dropped dead. All in the same evening, and he's working on my car the next morning.

It's a recipe for disaster, but this scenario is repeated a thousand times a day. Just ask any of the hundreds of people who drive out of Pep Boys with an oil change every day, but drive out WITHOUT the filter or drain plug reinstalled.

The Twin Towers collapsing, because who could envision THAT happening?

That bridge which collapsed on its like first day way back, swaying in the wind like a piece of toilet paper?

Bad things aren't going to go away--ever.

The bridge tender will always fall asleep on the job, and that kids' bus driver will always get drunk.

And your closing quote of 40 years ago is FANTASTIC. It shows just how pitiful this country can be when it comes to the REALLY important things.