140.000.000$

[Catoosa Grani]

We need our $1600 to pay for the gas to get to IRG II. I'm not sure how we'll get home.

I also like Ron Paul. I don't agree with everything he says but more so then the others. I'm afraid there is no way he will ever get elected though. Politics is all B.S. and it has nothing to do with who would do the best job.

Scott F.

[cs_whypt2]

Not everyone in America gets the $800 though. If you make "too musch money" (single-$35,000 couple-$110,000) then you do not get it. But what I want to know is, is there a minimum requirement? I think that if you didn't give at least $800, after all of the dependents are taken out, you shouldn't get it. Does anyone know if there is a minimum?

Dianne

A stimulus plan does not even exist, yet. How can there be a minimum or a maximum?

Right now, this whole thing is just talk. Given time, as Lewis Black says, the Republicans will come up with a really bad plan, and the Democrats will make it worse.

If you make over $35,000 and you are single, you will not get the $800. If you are married and the both of you make $110,000, you will not get the $800.
What I want to know is...If you have 20 children, and claim each one of those as a dependant, and get tax breaks on them, and so you are never paying any taxes to begin with, will they get the $800 to? If people are getting $800 "back" you should have had to make it in the first place, and having a bizillion kids, with no means to pay for them does not justify an $800 refund/tax break/what ever you want to call it.
I put it this way, because that is the way a good amount of people here live. Milwaukee has/had one of, if not the, highest teen pregnancy ratings per capita.

Dianne

The tentative deal reached in the House of Representatives today has an income cap of $75,000 for a single, and $150,000 for couples. There is also a $300 per child addition, with rebates limited to $1,200 per family.

The basic "rebate' would be $300 per single, and $600 per couple.

You have to have earned at least $3,000 in 2007 to qualify. Some people who did not earn enough to owe taxes will be eligible. The reason is that these people will be the most likely to spend the money, which is the whole idea.

People and families making a lot of money are not very likely to change their spending habits over a $300 to $1,200 "rebate" since they can already buy whatever they want.

Of course, the main flaw in any kind of "rebate" plan is that, even if it passes this week, it will take until June to actually get check out to people.

CD

I see. I get the whole spending money thing with the rich and poor, but I still don't understand why I pay people to have kids. I want a check for not contributing to the biggest pollutant on this world.

(Life is sexually transmitted, you know...)


Dianne

[Claw]

I see. I get the whole spending money thing with the rich and poor, but I still don't understand why I pay people to have kids. I want a check for not contributing to the biggest pollutant on this world.

(Life is sexually transmitted, you know...)


Dianne

I never thought of my kids as a pollutant Heck we were all kids once.

I agree with you about tax breaks for things and kids. Why do we get a break for being in hock for a mortgage or the things it takes to make a living or saving money in a IRA or any of the multitude of things Uncle Sam encourages to do through the tax system. I say eliminate the income tax system altogether and control the spending and give aways. No flat tax, No federal sales tax or anything to replace it, just control spending.
The government should not be in the business of transfering wealth.

[cs_whypt2]

The government should not be in the business of transfering wealth.

I agree. Or if there is a tax, everyone pays the same percent.


Dianne

[caseydog]

I really don't mind paying taxes, or even the amount I pay. Heck, I could have been born in Mexico where taxes are considerably lower. Then I'd be trying to cross the border to the US to live in America.

I pay a couple grand per year on School taxes, even though I don't have any kids. I don't mind, because educating kids is a good for me in the long run.

I see taxes as the price I pay to live in a great country -- despite our problems, we do live in a great country.

I would like to see the waste cut out of spending, so the dollars spent get used for the common good, and not for bribing voters. BTW, programs like Medicare are actually quite efficient. The biggest wastes can be found on the Military side. Those $400 toilet seats are now $40 cases of Pepsi. Hallibirton is swimming in money thanks to the Iraq war.

I also agree with Adam Smith, and the reasons that the progressive income tax was created. The people who initiated the progressive tax had seen Aristocracies first hand, and did not like what they saw. Besides, if I made a million-dollars a year, and Uncle Sam took 36 percent of it, I'd be too busy enjoying my good fortune to cry over the 36-percent tax (not that anyone that rich with a good tax attorney actually pays the full tax rate).

On-topic, I think this rush to come out with a "stimulus package" is stupid. Recessions come, and recessions go. Besides, what ever happened to the idea of investing in public works projects? They create real jobs, and improve our living conditions. I guess our highways and bridges must all be in great shape.

Instead, we all get a few hundred bucks to spend at Wal-Mart, and half of the money spent there will go to China, where all the goods are made. The deficit will grow some more, so we'll borrow more money from China. Nice.

CD

[Claw]

Taxes are needed for many things, however consider this graphic
http://www.taxfoundation.org/UserFiles/ ... large2.jpg
Our tax burden is our biggest single expense. This I believe is unacceptable. Freedom is not defined spending 120 days working to pay our tax burden.

The United States is a people with a government not a government with a people.

[caseydog]

Taxes are needed for many things, however consider this graphic
http://www.taxfoundation.org/UserFiles/ ... large2.jpg
Our tax burden is our biggest single expense. This I believe is unacceptable. Freedom is not defined spending 120 days working to pay our tax burden.

The United States is a people with a government not a government with a people.

Ron Paul's dreamworld of low taxes and minimal regulations on business is just south of the Texas border in Mexico. I'd be glad to help him pack. Being a politician, I'm sure he's qualified to work at one of the many sweat-shops along the border. I know a guy who owns several of them. I can put in a good word for him.

BTW, as a cancer survivor, I can tell you that the percentage for Health Care on your chart is WAY off, unless you never get sick.

CD

[Claw]

Know what could be cool, is to have a POSITIVE candidate thread, where people could post about which candidate(s) they LIKE and why they LIKE them.

Trashing other candidates, or previous presidents would be forbidden. Trashing other poster's choices, would be out of bounds, too.

:

Some people's budgets are obviously different than the graphic which you know is an average representation. I can adjust pieces of my budget when one area starts to overwhelm the pie or when circumstances, such as cancer, forces a demand upon it, all that is except the piece the government demands.

Here is an interesting article about our country being south of the border,
http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp
and why we might not want what some desire regarding health care.

[caseydog]

Don't get me wrong, there are things that I agree with Ron Paul on, like the foolishness of invading Iraq, but his brand of economic conservatism seems to be based on how things "should" work, based on conservative theories. It's an ideology that doesn't seem to work out in real life with real people and real societies.

My point about Ron Paul moving to Mexico is that there he could witness the reality where low taxes and weak regulations on business aren't working out too well. They have low taxes, not much in the way of social welfare programs, and weak labor laws that are good for business. That's what I'm often told is what WE need here. Yet, they have a small wealthy class, not much of a middle class, and a lot of poor. It's been my observation that this is what you get with poorly regulated free enterprise.

But, not many people are crossing into Mexico, and we can't keep Mexicans out of our country. And, they are not coming for our welfare, as some say, but to work for seven bucks an hour, which is big-time wages compared to what they can make in Mexico.

I do agree with you that our tax laws are WAY too complicated, and it is easy for some to game the system, while others pay too much because they don't understand the laws. I hear that from conservatives and liberals, alike.

I just think we can fix the system without abolishing the IRS. And I don't believe the government IS in the business of transferring wealth.

Anyway, I appreciate your comments, even when we disagree. It's nice that we live in a place where we can discuss things like this, in public, and not get arrested for it.

[Claw]

I think Dr. Ron Paul didn't necessarily consider the war with Iraq as foolishness but that it was unconstitutional. We have a Consitution for a reason and every time it is neglected it is devalued. Something that happens whenever any sound principle is not attended to properly.

Honor is a sound principle. Mexico's problems are not caused by low taxes but by a lack of honor in its politicians and those entrusted with its laws. Corruption is a hidden tax which must be budgeted into the Mexican way of life. Social walfare programs disintegrate the middle class by taxing the working (middle) class to a point that there is little incentive to be more productive. This is the fear of an excessive tax burden. It assumes that someone else can decide, or worse demand, for you what is best.

When the government takes someone's money and does anything with it, it transfers wealth. Some things are needed. However when the burden of those other things become so great that the economic future of the nation falters we end up with a policy which began this thread, a transfer of wealth. Wouldn't it be better to not tax the bejesus out of us in the first place?

Each year there is 260 working days in a 5 day work week, the government demands 120 of those days.The Constitution provides us protection from the government. Ron Paul has a great respect for that need.

Caseydog, thanks for engaging the conversation. It helps to solidify our thoughts and maybe give others an opportunity to consider what they want when exercising the right to vote. God help us.

[H@nk]

Hasn't any-one noticed there are 3 000 less?
From the moment I posted this treat, I'm waiting for that question.
It makes a lot of diferent if your pay-check is 2$ or 2000$.
What if its 140 million or 140 billion?
Just a thought

[Amish Classic]

Who does the government here think they are fooling ? Not most of us here anyway. The way I look at it, I paid for my own refund. My property/school taxes already soaked it up with a 7% increase. I am no farther ahead anyway.

[cs_whypt2]

Who does the government here think they are fooling ? Not most of us here anyway. The way I look at it, I paid for my own refund. My property/school taxes already soaked it up with a 7% increase. I am no farther ahead anyway.

MPS (Milwaukee Public Schools) has proposed a 35% tax increase to fix the problems in the schools!! 35%!!
So when I get that $800, my taxes are still going to go up, to support a school that can not graduate 75% of the students that start high school.

I will never see the money.

Dianne

[fornesto]

Just to spite the Bushies, I'm going to invest my $1,600 in a CD for a long long time. Sorry WalMart and China. Why aren't we putting 1,000s to work in much needed public works projects? I'd rather see that money go towards bridges, levees and highways - not more crap from WalMart. FDR might have been close to a socialist, but we wouldn't have most of our National Parks and recreation areas if it weren't for him. Those investments have paid for themselves multifold.

Does anybody remember the parable of the talents?

[caseydog]

Just to spite the Bushies, I'm going to invest my $1,600 in a CD for a long long time. Sorry WalMart and China. Why aren't we putting 1,000s to work in much needed public works projects? I'd rather see that money go towards bridges, levees and highways - not more crap from WalMart. FDR might have been close to a socialist, but we wouldn't have most of our National Parks and recreation areas if it weren't for him. Those investments have paid for themselves multifold.

Does anybody remember the parable of the talents?

I'm with you on the public works because...

A. a lot of construction workers have been canned due to the housing slump. A lot have transferable skills.

B. our interstate highway network, once the envy of the world, is crumbling.

C. using tax dollars to BUILD something is an investment in our future, while sending out checks for nothing just builds our national debt.

Just my 3-cents (2-cents adjusted for inflation).

CD