How do you react to this?

[Joseph]

Joseph, how could one so supposedly educated as yourself be so blind as to what is happening in this country? I'm just trying to UNDERSTAND what you believe:
Are you saying that government and corporate policies regarding health benefits, job security and opportunities for advancement over the past 25, 35 years have been GOOD for Americans? Is that what you're really saying? That we're BETTER OFF now? Employer and employee ALIKE?

Absolutely not. I’m saying that as with everything else the Federal Government gets it’s hands on, they are very busy screwing up all of those things and more. If you want it done right, the Fed is the last place to look.

Do you have neighbors and actually talk to them? Do you see what the majority of Americans are and have been thinking for a VERY long time?

And on exactly what do you base your opinion of what the majority of Americans think?

Put the rhetoric aside, put the party ideology aside, and are you STILL claiming this?
If so, there really is no discussing this with you. You just don't know what the hell is going in America today, or you don't care or believe that things could or should be better.

As a matter of fact, I care very much. We’re headed down the path of becoming a Socialist nanny state and I’d hate for that to happen. As the old saying goes, “If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it’s free.”

Also, many of your posted facts are distorted beyond belief,

Which facts have I distorted? Name one, and show me how I distorted it. Just one.

and if you want to go head to head about the facts regarding Wal-Mart, I'll be GLAD to do it with you:
But I'll drop my first torpedo on your unlightened Wal-Mart head:
No--a company is NOT alllowed to hire as many "part-time" workers as they want, who don't receive benefits. This is the LAW, and Wal-Mart is lobbying, and pushing the issue beyond belief--STILL saying that they're good for America! There is a number, a formula, where the labor laws kick in and the government says, "What the hell are these guys doing here?"

While I believe their hiring practices are NOT in the best interests of their employees, I still don’t believe they’re illegal and you have yet to tell me what law they’re breaking. Give me a reference. Again, just one.

Now, they most certainly DID violate child labor laws by having kids under eighteen operate hazardous machinery – they denied it, but paid the fine anyway. But you cannot show me a law that their hiring practices violate.

I guess in a Republican world, having half of your labor needs filled by part-timers--even if you have to hire 75% of your workforce to accomplish that 50%--is okay. But it is STILL against the law.

WHAT FREAKING LAW ARE YOU REFERRING TO?!! Certain cities or states are trying to PASS laws to force WalMart to provide benefits – Maryland, for instance – but so far those have been tossed out by the courts. And if you think Maryland courts are controlled by Republicans, you’re truly lost in space. I can find no EXISTING LAW that they are breaking by these practices, so please enlighten me. While you’re at it, I’d also like to know why nobody is taking them to court for violation of those laws.

Enough on this.

I love arguing with Joseph, but Jay is just a total putz.

Name calling? Ira, you disappoint me. I really did think better of you.

One more thing:
Will you Republicans STOP using the expression "Throw money at something," even when we're talking about increased spending for education?

I’m not a Republican, as you may recall. And “throwing money” at a problem is exactly what you’re doing when you give it to the Feds.

Just a little bit of advice, because that's a really tired way of twisting the issues, and you just have to get over it.

Right. Let’s just create more bureaucracy to run our lives for us. Sorry, I’m not gonna get over it.

Also, your use of the term "liberal" as a dirty word doesn't seem to have the same damaging impact on us now that it may have had in the past. And that's because the word "stupid," so closely associated with this president, has taken the leading role in these semantics.

Then why did the liberal politicians coin the term “progressive” to disguise the fact that they’re liberals? Why do they position themselves to appear to be what they’re not? I must give you credit, Ira – you are proud to be a liberal. But there’s no denying that, with few exceptions, those seeking power in the Democrat party are doing their level best to hide it.

Look:
It's not MY fault that Nancy Pelosi is so smart and that you guys just can't take her heat!

That's a good one, Ira!!

Joseph

[JunkMan]

No--a company is NOT alllowed to hire as many "part-time" workers as they want, who don't receive benefits. This is the LAW, and Wal-Mart is lobbying, and pushing the issue beyond belief--STILL saying that they're good for America! There is a number, a formula, where the labor laws kick in and the government says, "What the hell are these guys doing here?"

I'll have to join Joseph here and ask you to state the law you are referring to. I own my own business (have for 22 years) and have never heard of such a law. I currently have about 60 employees, and have had as many as 125. Most of my employees are part timers, and always have been. I've never been questioned about this, or told that I was in violation of any laws.

I don't employ part timers because it keeps me from paying benifits, but because that is the nature of my business. Unlike an office job where your employees can work 9 - 5, in retail, you have to schedule your employees when you are busy. It doesn't make any sense to have people on the clock all day when the majority of your business comes at specific parts of the day, so you schedule part timers to come in during those busy periods.

I do offer health insurance to my full timers, and pay 50% of the premiums, but most of my employees don't take advantage of it, because they don't want to pay the other 50%. most of them are young people, and when I ask them why, they say that they don't think they really need it, and can't afford it. I guess they figure that the government will bail them out if they get in a bind, and would rather have a few extra bucks for cigarettes and boooze, considering that most of them smoke a couple of packs a day, and come in hung over regularly.

[angib]

We’re headed down the path of becoming a Socialist nanny state and I’d hate for that to happen. As the old saying goes, “If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it’s free.”

Curiously all those Socialist nanny states actually pay much less for their health care than the US and they often seems to have better results.

Developed countries spending over 10% of GDP on health care are:
France: 10.1% (=$2900/person)
Norway: 10.3% (=$3800/person)
Iceland: 10.5% (=$3100/person)
Germany: 11.1% (=$3000/person)
Switzerland: 11.5% (=$3800/person)
USA: 15.2% (=$5700/person)

Source: WHO

Andrew

[Joseph]

Curiously all those Socialist nanny states actually pay much less for their health care than the US and they often seems to have better results.

Depends on what you mean by "better." IIRC a lot of folks from those states come here when they want some serious work done.

But of course the US spends more on health care - to say nothing of the insurance issues discussed elsewhere, litigation drives up the price of everything and I'm ashamed to say that we are without a doubt the most litigious nation on the planet.

Joseph

[bledsoe3]

I'm ashamed to say that we are without a doubt the most litigious nation on the planet.

Joseph

Unfortunately, I'll have to agree.

[Joseph]

Developed countries spending over 10% of GDP on health care are:

Also, this makes me wonder how "health care" is defined. Are the millions (billions?) of dollars Americans spend on vanity surgery and treatments included? Just wondering...

Joseph

[cracker39]

Healthcare costs are driven up by a lot of factors that no one seems to be doing much about. If you go into a hospital for even the most routine of events, you will find that you are subjected to tests and xrays that seem to have nothing to do with your treatment. Often, you find bills from doctors (consultants, specialists, etc.) that you don't remember even seeing. You are charged outrageous prices for an aspirin or a bandage...hundreds of times what it costs the hospital.

My wife was admitted to a local hospital for 3 days as an outpatient for her ongoing abdominal pains. A couple of tests were run and she was given some medication for pain. The cost? Over $8,000 just for the hospital stay alone. Of course, the healthcare plan will pay for the majority of that, as we who have to pay for healthcare end up paying it back through high premiums. And, in the end, nothing out of the ordinary was found to be wrong with her (that the doctor didn't already know about anyway) and she was prescribed pain patches to wear and sent to a pain specialist who has continued to prescribe the same patches...more cost, no more results.

I shouldn't say that no one is doing anything. Some years back, the VA wised up and makes medical supply vendors submit competetive bids on VA purchases of medical supplies. Medicare does not. I've seen sample price lists in a national magazine that shows Medicare paying 15 to 50 times as much as VA for the same item such as a bandage, tape or gauze pad. When one vendor was asked about charging Medicar such high prices, he said if he didn't, someone else would. Doctors blatantly overcharge patients with Medicare and people wonder why Medicare is going broke. As said above, hospitals are just as bad about charging huge markups for supplies. That's their bread and butter.

And I won't even get started on prescription drug cost markups.

I'd bettery shut up before I do get wound up. Sorry about the rant. As a retiree, it just makes my blood boil. It's no wonder the doctor found that I have high blood pressure on my last visit. I'm afraid to even go measure it right now after typing this reply.

[Joseph]

If you go into a hospital for even the most routine of events, you will find that you are subjected to tests and xrays that seem to have nothing to do with your treatment.

Don't forget the little things like the overnight kit they give you - paper slippers, that little plastic kidney-shaped bowl that I guess you're supposed to pee in, plus I can't remember what all other little pieces of cheap crap (probably from WalMart!) that you don't need or use. I couldn't BELIEVE it when I saw the bill - it was about three or four years ago so I don't remember exactly but I think it was about fifty bucks for maybe five bucks "worth" of stuff.

Joseph

[asianflava]

I don't remember exactly but I think it was about fifty bucks for maybe five bucks "worth" of stuff.

Almost as bad as a $600 toilet seat.