Is the U.S. headed for a food shortage?

Things that don't fit anywhere else...

Postby caseydog » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:05 pm

S. Heisley wrote:Thanks for the corrections, critiques, deep thoughts :thinking:
and ...chuckles!
:lol:
On the world news, tonight, they said some stores in China are no longer supplying plastic bags to their customers and customers there are bringing their own. :thumbsup:

Yes, maybe, just like the lyrics, "Turn,turn,turn" will happen yet!


Some cities here are banning the plastic grocery bags. Just look around your town, and you will probably see them all over the place. I see them blowing around here all the time. I find them in my yard after every trash pickup day.

I have two canvas bags that I take to Kroger with me. I can get a whole lot of stuff in them, and sling them over my shoulder to the car. And, Kroger gives a small credit to customers that used bags like mine.

IKEA charges a nickel each for plastic bags. Or, you can buy one of their big blue sacks with shoulder straps for 50 cents, and reuse it for all kinds of things -- even groceries.

I just don't see a food crisis in our near future. Food is probably going to go up in price -- partially due to fuel prices -- but if we cut down on buying all the crap we buy at Wally World, we'll have plenty to eat.

CD
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Postby angib » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:32 am

caseydog wrote:I just don't see a food crisis in our near future. Food is probably going to go up in price....

Yes, it can't be a real problem for 'us' because we have the money to buy food, from someone else if we need to - like CD says, we may have to trim some other expenditure, but we can do it.

But, for the huge number of really poor people around the world, the rise in the cost of food is quite literally deadly. They often spend over three-quarters of what they earn to buy food so, if it doubles in price, the only option is to buy half as much - and gradually starve to death.

The crisis is sufficiently severe that some countries like India and either Indonesia or Malaysia have introduced export bans on basic rice crops, to try to stop the rising international price causing famine at home - though it's hard to see that working for long.

Andrew
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Postby Wolf » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:43 am

But, for the huge number of really poor people around the world, the rise in the cost of food is quite literally deadly. They often spend over three-quarters of what they earn to buy food so, if it doubles in price, the only option is to buy half as much - and gradually starve to death.

Andrew[/quote]

Thank you Andrew.

I'm going to put my pride aside for just a moment and say this.

My wife and I live on $650 a month since I was fired from my job in July of 2005 (I got injured on the job and could not work, so I was "let go") Since then I have been denied unemployment, have done the food stamp thing (only the second time in my life) No SSDI or SSI for me, no treatment for my injury, no family doctor, no coverage. I fell of the radar. A year and a half later I get a settlement after a long battle, about what I would have made in that time. Pain everyday. I bought the place we own now with the money, best thing I could have ever done. Rent would be enough to push us right into homelessness. One store in town to buy food, costs half again what I could buy it for if a were to drive to Walmart 85 miles away (one way), fuel over $4 per gallon, do the math. I weigh what I did in high school. I have never in my life been out of work for more then 2 weeks, and have never had a vacation, ever.
Thank God I have a little work coming in, the only jobs here are the circle crap and fast food. It would cost me more to go to work then I would make.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining, don't want any pity. I'm mad.
This is a family site so I am going to contain myself. But......

Meanwhile Bush and company has gotten us into two "wars" illegally, made BILLOINS of dollars with his oil buddies, helped outsource more of our jobs, and done too little to control the borders. And we wanted to impeach Clinton? Wake up folks, this isn't over yet. With even higher prices for food and gas coming this summer it may not matter who the next "ruler" gets appointed in November. This coming winter is not looking good for a lot of people.

Food or fuel is becoming a big issue now across the country. This was sent to me just yesterday, a bit long but worth the read.


"We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of America's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, 'Mexifornia,' explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.

Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, 'If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall ,and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.''

'Here is how they do it,' Lamm said: 'First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country.'History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.' Canada,Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans.'.

Lamm went on: Second, to destroy America, 'Invent' multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture.Make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal That there are no cultural differences. Make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.

Third, 'We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much eff ort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.'Lamm said, 'I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities.'

'Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school.'

'My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of' Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population.'

'My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship,and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common Language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. 'E. Pluribus Unum' --From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'Unum,' we will balkanize America as surely as Kosovo.'

'Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra:That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them.'

In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his
brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said,. 'Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book 'Mexifornia.' His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book.'

There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like anominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically,quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today.
Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 lang uages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Even barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book '1984.' In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truthbuilding:'War is peace,' 'Freedom is slavery,' and 'Ignorance is strength.'

Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path especially The AmericanDream."

Have a nice day, really! I'll get off my soapbox now.
Wolf
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Postby Bodyman » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:47 am

And the rain continues.
Heavy thunderstorms and tornados again overnight. Widespread flash flooding on top of record high major flooding. More rain forecast for most of the next week.
I feel I need to stress the importance of this on what may already be an impending food crisis.
By taking just a short drive I can see thousands of acres of what would be corn or soybeans which haven't been planted or are covered with standing water. This is just locally. It is the same over much of Iowa, Southern Illinois, and Indiana. We are talking millions of acres plus reduced yields on what is planted.
You may think it is just corn and it doesn't affect most people, but you need to realize almost everything on the grocery shelf contains corn products.
Some statistics:
In 2007, an acre of corn went into 3,291 hamburgers or 66, 713 bowls of corn flakes or 7,608 pork chops, or even 464 gallons of E85 fuel. In addition to food and fuel, that crop went into paper, textiles, adhesives, and more. Mulitply those numbers by the nearly 14 million acres of corn produced in Iowa.

Consider that in recent years an acre of corn has prduced 180-200 bushels.
What comes from a bushel of corn?

1.6 Pounds of Corn Oil
Cooking Oil, Margarine, Mayonnaise, Salad Dressing, Shortening, Soups, Printing Ink, Soap, Leather Tanning
AND

13.5 Pounds of 21% Protein Gluten Feed
Livestock & Poultry Feed, Pet Food

AND

2.6 Pounds of 60% Gluten Meal
Amino Acids, Fur Cleaner, Poultry Feed
AND 32 Pounds of Starch
Adhesives, Batteries, Cardboard, Crayons, Degradable Plastics, Dyes, Plywood, Paper, Antibiotics, Chewing Gum
OR

33 Pounds of Sweetener
Shoe Polish, Soft Drinks & Juices, Jams and Jellies, Canned Fruit, Cereal, Licorice, Peanut Butter, Pickles, Catsup, Marshmallows
OR

2.7 Gallons of Ethanol/Alcohol
Motor Fuel Additive, Alcoholic Beverages, Industrial Alcohol

Sorry, I am not one to lecture but feel the current weather is serious and the effects will be felt by all.

Randy
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Postby Wolf » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:21 am

Bodyman, Great info! Thank you.
Some of the things we just take for granted when we just pull something of the shelf.

We can all live without the High Fructose Corn Syrup, but not like this :(

Are you keeping high and dry? Need any help?
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Postby S. Heisley » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:28 am

Even with all these problems each of you list, I feel blessed to live where I do and have what I have. Most of us, members of this forum, are lucky enough to be able to build or at least dream of such luxury items as camping trailers. I still say "God Bless America" and I ask God will bless the world with peace...and food.

About a year ago, I went to a meeting where the question was asked: "What was the best thing that happened to you today?" The profound answers of many were surprising:

"I woke up! I am here to live another day!"

I still think about that.
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Postby Wolf » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:48 am

Amen, everyday above ground is a good day!

When asked one day while checking his mailbox how he was feeling the elderly man replied " just circling round the drain" :lol:

I try to put a smile on at least one face a day. :)
I got to go make sawdust now.
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Postby Bodyman » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:32 am

Wolf
Thanks for asking. Personally I have not been affected with the flooding. Only minimal storm damage.
The news media concentrates mosty on the larger rivers in the major cities, which right now is really bad. Many small towns have been complety evacuated and large areas of the cities also.
The flash flood damage is far more widespread, with many, many roads and bridges, dikes and dams washed out. I can't drive anywhere in the county without taking a 5 to 10 mile detour.
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Postby caseydog » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:48 am

Midwest flooding, and overflowing rivers in that region aren't new. I am curious, how are these comparing to previous floods? Are the circumstances different? Are they worse, or not as bad?

Any old timers who have been through a few Midwest floods might want to chime in.

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Postby Bodyman » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:38 pm

Casey
These floods are unheard of, breaking all previous records. Many rivers are now at 6 to 8 feet above previous record highs. And still rising. The rains continue.
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Postby cs_whypt2 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:50 pm

caseydog wrote:Midwest flooding, and overflowing rivers in that region aren't new. I am curious, how are these comparing to previous floods? Are the circumstances different? Are they worse, or not as bad?

Any old timers who have been through a few Midwest floods might want to chime in.

CD


I'm not an old timer, but Wisconsin has lost 3 lakes already do to damns breaking. I am pretty sure that means it is bad.
Google Lake Delton. That has effected ALL of Wisconsin. Long term. That is alot of our money. And the 245 acres of water that dissapeared in 2 hours had to go somewhere. It went south!

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Postby Bodyman » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:01 am

[quote="caseydog"]Midwest flooding, and overflowing rivers in that region aren't new. I am curious, how are these comparing to previous floods? Are the circumstances different? Are they worse, or not as bad?

Any old timers who have been through a few Midwest floods might want to chime in.

CD[/quote

These news reports state conditions better than I can.
Casey I am not an alarmist.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/us/13 ... ei=5087%0A
http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs. ... /1006/news
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Postby fornesto » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:08 pm

I have a hard enough time "getting through" all the food in our cupboards before the fresh stuff spoils. I never actually eat because I'm truly hungry, but because its that time of the day and I don't want to offend the wife. I always lose a couple pounds when my wife's away for a week or so because I don't stop to cook over-the-top meals and only eat when I'm truly hungry. If I were a single guy with no kids, I could live on a very meager diet. If a Food Shortage is based on our current consumption/waste patterns, that it is probably inevitable. Remember when a 1/4 lb hamburger was a big one? Now, Chili's, Applebees, etc. all serve 1/2 lb burgers. Have you seen how McDonalds portions have gone up since the 50s? Where else in the world can you get an all-you-can eat dinner (Hometown Buffet) with fresh fruit, meat, and beverage for the equivalent of 1-2 hrs. of minimum wage work? Presently, there is an inverse relationship between income and calories consumed in America - the less money you make, the more calories you consume and vice versa. That's just wrong. If food supply was cut by 20%, and Americans adjusted their consumption accordingly, we would be much healthier and more well-off. I say bring it on.
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Postby cs_whypt2 » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:17 pm

Bodyman wrote:
caseydog wrote:Midwest flooding, and overflowing rivers in that region aren't new. I am curious, how are these comparing to previous floods? Are the circumstances different? Are they worse, or not as bad?

Any old timers who have been through a few Midwest floods might want to chime in.

CD[/quote

These news reports state conditions better than I can.
Casey I am not an alarmist.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/us/13 ... ei=5087%0A
http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs. ... /1006/news


Yeah, and not to mention at least 30% crop loss in Iowa.

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Postby fornesto » Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:08 pm

One more thing...speculators are driving up the cost of corn because they see a real future in alternative corn-based fuels (not a bad thing ordinarily). That, along with the floods and crop losses, will not help things. We've seen what those speculators can do to oil prices! Crop insurance does not help the rest of us. Glad it helps the farmers though.
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