Gas in your area.....

[doug hodder]

good one Ira...Doug

[caseydog]

Caseydog if what you say is true, then why are the oil companies ramping up the construction of drilling rigs? These companies have had rigs stacked for yrs and they are putting them back in service and building new ones as we speak. If crude from the the otherside was so profitable they would not be doing this. The company I work for is a construction and oilfield service company. The oilfield side has boomed X10 and then some. Open the gulf, the east/west coast and Alaska for drilling/ production.. If the oil campanies can buy the the oil so cheap then why is the Alaskan pipe line still in use? Why did they(oil campanies spend the $) to get it operational? Oh yea why do Caribou hang around it? Sorry had to throw that in. You are incorrect that big oil can buy it cheaper than they can produce it. If that was true, as I stated they would not be building the rigs and putting older rigs back in service. We have several customers that are world wide(this one in particular) that built many new land and offshore rigs, this year alone. We outfitted them with our product. They are still projecting more rigs for 08. Thats myside of the story.
I have got to ask why do you say we waste resources? We are the only country that has the a government agency( maybe not the only one, not sure on that) restricting us on pollution. Please show me and agency in China, India etc equal to the EPA here.Dont tell me about Europe, they run diesels for the most part in non commercial vehicle's. Yet here they deemed bad. Tell me where China and India or whoever else monitor pollution as we do? How can we waste a resource, yet when another country experiences a disaster the come running to the US to bail them out. Why do we have a border crossing problem? We are not a bad country as you elewded to, we are the BEST.

Well, to address the second part first. What difference does it make what China is, or is not, doing? I don't see how China's energy policies effect what we choose to do here.

And, why is questioneing what we are doing here equated with calling us a "bad" country? What does immigration trends have to do with a discussion on conservation?

As for new drilling, there is a new effort to drill in areas that are easily accessible, and there is a known supply of oil and gas. Actually, there has been a lot of drilling for natural gas lately, as that is more plentiful here, and is gaining popoularity in usage.

As for ANWR, ConocPhillips and BP have stopped lobbying efforts to open ANWR, and they are big players in Alaskan exploration.

And don't forget my other point, that there isin't enough oil in our territories to support our demand, even if we drill every square mile of the USA.

"A report from the United States Geological Survey estimates that potential ANWR oil supplies range from 15.6 billion to 42.3 billion barrels. But the agency also said it believes only 37 percent of these resources are "technically recoverable," leaving only 10.4 billion barrels, or 1.4 million barrels a day, that could "technically" be brought out of the ground. The daily figure represents about 7 percent of what the United States now burns each day. "

My whole point is that we can not drill our way out of our dependence on foreign oil, and nobody on the pro-drilling side has demonstrated that we can. And as the demand for oil increases from emerging economies in China and India, worldwide oil reserves are going to be effected. With oil, supply is limited by nature, but demand is increasing. Free-market principles tell me that we can expect prices, and energy angst, to increase, too.

CD

[caseydog]

Ummmm. Don't know if I should ask but what the hey.....

Does anyone think it pertinent to gas prices that the guy in the white house is an oilman and then there is the matter of a very costly middle east invasion?

JG

I don't think the connections are that simple. The oil industry surely does have the ear of our current president, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that this was the reason for invading Iraq.

People often talk about "war for oil", but I don't think we invaded for oil, in a direct sense. I see it as more of a war for "power" in the middle east, which means leverag in the world's most oil-rich region. It is more about power, than about helping the oil industry.

There is an old twisting of the golden rule, that says "he who has the gold, rules." Well, in the near future, he who controls the Middle East may rule. China is becoming a new superpower, and having leverage over Middle-East oil would be a good card to have up our sleeve in the future.

I don't know that the oil industry wanted us to invade Iraq. I can't imagine why they would. They were probably pretty anxious about how things might go. Anxiety about the Middle East is one of the main reasons oil prices are up again recently. Oil traders are nervous. If there is a huge Islamic Fundamentalist backlash in the ME, big oil stands to get hurt pretty badly. Sure they are making big profits now, but what would happen if the Saudi Kingdom became and Islamic Theocracy. The Suadi Roay Family already has a tenuous grip on power, that they maintain by keeping a the peace with that countries religious leaders.

What's happening in the Middle East is a lot more complicated than good vs. evil, and war for oil, IMO.

CD

[caseydog]

The thread is about the price of gas in your area. How about we don't make it a political one, please.

I can see that my comments have triggered some of these political comments. But it was certainly not my intention to turn this discussion political. In fact, it WAS my intention to get people to think about our INDIVIDUAL choices. I don't see conservation as so much a government issue, as much as a cultural and personal choices issue.

Current gas prices have me starting to re-think my consumption habits, because I don't want to work my butt off just to feed my consumption habits.

We can't control the supply side of gasoline pricing, but we have a lot of control over the demand side.

G

[caseydog]

My statement was intended to keep this thread from heading into a "whose fault fight".

Thanks for that opening.

I don't think we can "blame" anyone but ourselves.

Gas prices are determined by supply and demand. Demand has been growing over recent years. Demend is up here because we love our big trucks and SUVs, and we love to commute one to a car. Worldwide demand is up due to emerging economies in Asia.

It's not anybody's fault that we can point to. It's reality rearing it's ugly head. Supply and demand are not playing nice.

[Miriam C.]

We are down to $2.65 today after a week at $2.69. Price of an airline ticket to Florida---down $60 from last month. Spring Break gouging?

[madjack]

My statement was intended to keep this thread from heading into a "whose fault fight".

Thanks for that opening.

I don't think we can "blame" anyone but ourselves.

Gas prices are determined by supply and demand. Demand has been growing over recent years. Demend is up here because we love our big trucks and SUVs, and we love to commute one to a car. Worldwide demand is up due to emerging economies in Asia.

It's not anybody's fault that we can point to. It's reality rearing it's ugly head. Supply and demand are not playing nice.

...report on the NBC Nightly News, last nite, stated that despite rising gas/oil prices, that we set a record for consumption last month...watched a woman, inna full sized crew cab pickup, on the local news, complaining about how much she had to spend on gas, to drive her monster back and forth to work everyday...by herself...our choices definitely have an impact on the "demand" side of the equation...
madjack

[Ira]

watched a woman, in a full sized crew cab pickup, on the local news, complaining about how much she had to spend on gas, to drive her monster back and forth to work everyday

She was probably really FAT too--which doesn't help your mileage at all.

But oh...that's a subject for another thread.

COME ON, FATSOS! I'M SICK OF YOU GUYS COMPLAINING THAT AIRLINE SEATS ARE TOO NARROW FOR YOUR HUGE ASSES, AND THAT YOU SHOULD ONLY BE CHARGED FOR ONE SEAT WHEN YOU REQUIRE TWO AND THAT YOU'RE BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST!

Yeah, I sat next to a real blimp a few years and I STILL haven't gotten over it. Damn asshole stole my peanuts, too.

[Hamcan]

COME ON, FATSOS! I'M SICK OF YOU GUYS COMPLAINING THAT AIRLINE SEATS ARE TOO NARROW FOR YOUR HUGE ASSES, AND THAT YOU SHOULD ONLY BE CHARGED FOR ONE SEAT WHEN YOU REQUIRE TWO AND THAT YOU'RE BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST!

Yeah, I sat next to a real blimp a few years and I STILL haven't gotten over it. Damn asshole stole my peanuts, too.

Hey Ira is that some more liberal humor?

JG

[Hamcan]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.

Hamcan wrote:
Ummmm. Don't know if I should ask but what the hey.....

Does anyone think it pertinent to gas prices that the guy in the white house is an oilman and then there is the matter of a very costly middle east invasion?

JG


I don't think the connections are that simple. The oil industry surely does have the ear of our current president, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that this was the reason for invading Iraq.

People often talk about "war for oil", but I don't think we invaded for oil, in a direct sense. I see it as more of a war for "power" in the middle east, which means leverag in the world's most oil-rich region. It is more about power, than about helping the oil industry.

There is an old twisting of the golden rule, that says "he who has the gold, rules." Well, in the near future, he who controls the Middle East may rule. China is becoming a new superpower, and having leverage over Middle-East oil would be a good card to have up our sleeve in the future.

I don't know that the oil industry wanted us to invade Iraq. I can't imagine why they would. They were probably pretty anxious about how things might go. Anxiety about the Middle East is one of the main reasons oil prices are up again recently. Oil traders are nervous. If there is a huge Islamic Fundamentalist backlash in the ME, big oil stands to get hurt pretty badly. Sure they are making big profits now, but what would happen if the Saudi Kingdom became and Islamic Theocracy. The Suadi Roay Family already has a tenuous grip on power, that they maintain by keeping a the peace with that countries religious leaders.

What's happening in the Middle East is a lot more complicated thangood vs. evil, and war for oil, IMO

Thanks Caseydog, I appreciate the reasoned tone of your reply, my intention was not to stir the political pot but to get some perspective on the rising gas prices in the U.S. You have provided that without taking a partisan political approach.

Gas prices in Canada are generally at least 25% higher than in the U.S.
the difference I think is in differing tax rates, that is controlled by politicans but those tax rates don't vary with a change of government from left to right so it is not a partisan issue here either.

JG

[Lesbest]

The gov't. makes more money when the price is low, than when high. We buy more gas when it is cheap, and the tax is per gallon sold, not the total $ amount sold. The tax is the same whether it is 1.00 or 3.00 a gallon.Here in Oh. it is .44 a gal, with some counties adding their own,and fri I got $50. at 2.85 in the morning, and $50. at 2.93 in the afternoon for the ride home.
Les

[caseydog]

"You could open up all of Alaska to drilling today, and it wouldn't help. "

Granted it would take yrs, to help, but it would help. We got in this situation by placing all the restrictions on oil companies over the many yrs. so it will take yrs to get out of it. So the long an short of it is this, we pay high $ at the pump for the ignorance of some that passed all the restrictions on oil companies for drilling in the USA. We are now in position of paying the price for limited foresight. JMO

"First, the oil companies don't want to spend that kind of money to drill up there, when they can buy cheaper crude from the Arabs. Supply and demand. The notion that "libs" are keeping us from energy independence is just political flamethrowing. The US doesn't have the huge reserves of easily extracted oil that the Middle East has. "

When you restrict the oil campanies to the areas of access for drilling here in the USA, they do go to other regions to buy oil, in that respect your statement is correct. I stand by my "lib"s referrence, mainly because thats where the resrictions came from over the yrs. Political or not, thats a fact.

"Heck, you could drill an oil well on every square mile of US soil, and we'd still have to import about half our oil from other countries. "

You cant, nor can the oil campanies. Thats why were paying 2.70 plus per gallon. I am just curious on this question which relates to the buy it cheaper from Arabs statement, Do you really believe its cheaper to buy it from the arabs, have it transported to the US and then refine it? I mean think about it. Wal Mart is not the shipper to the US. We do this because of the restrictions placed on drilling in the US

"And, China's demand for oil is gaining momentum, as is India's. The free market is soon going to teach us a valuable lesson about the cost of wasting resources."
This statement here is where you prove the "libs" restrictions on the oil industry hurt the USA, IMO then you reply

"What difference does it make what China is, or is not, doing? I don't see how China's energy policies effect what we choose to do here. "

Appearently global warming is not produced/affected by China or any other country on that side of pond. BTW, all the restrictions placed on drilling here in USA are enviromental related and the refining of crude is global warming related, as is the consumption of the product. I am very curiuos to see the exhuast output(sniffers) restrictions placed on the Chinese,India and others. So yea I feel it makes a difference what the Chinese are doing. While we strangle the oil campanies here. Isnt China's population bigger than ours? I take it since they are the next Super Power, they have industry in growth. Can we see the results of what their steel mills are putting in the air? coal mines? Refineries? Nuclear? See I find this relative to what we have going politically here. So basically its OK for them to screw us on the free trade for How many yrs? Several Presidencies, and yet we help them on them on the oil side by putting a strangle hold on our local Oil companies.

"A report from the United States Geological Survey estimates that potential ANWR oil supplies range from 15.6 billion to 42.3 billion barrels. But the agency also said it believes only 37 percent of these resources are "technically recoverable," leaving only 10.4 billion barrels, or 1.4 million barrels a day, that could "technically" be brought out of the ground. The daily figure represents about 7 percent of what the United States now burns each day. "

I actually would be more impressed with a result from Exxon, or any other oil company that is in it to make $. Last time I checked the government does not have to make money. They tax it.

"There is an old twisting of the golden rule, that says "he who has the gold, rules." Well, in the near future, he who controls the Middle East may rule. China is becoming a new superpower, and having leverage over Middle-East oil would be a good card to have up our sleeve in the future."

I totally agree. Thats why we have to prevail in Iraq, and on the world trade market Plus encourage drilling locally on our continent.

"My whole point is that we can not drill our way out of our dependence on foreign oil, and nobody on the pro-drilling side has demonstrated that we can. And as the demand for oil increases from emerging economies in China and India, worldwide oil reserves are going to be effected. With oil, supply is limited by nature, but demand is increasing. Free-market principles tell me that we can expect prices, and energy angst, to increase, too. "

I disagree, we can drill our way out for the short term( next 50 yrs or better, let the alternative fuel industry prove themselves and best big oil, I am all for that), turn the market loose and see what happens, cut the drilling restrictions( locations, not safety). I personally visit many drilling rig locations weekly, I can tell you this they are cleaner than any convience store and are more safety oriented than any road construction crew, home construction, business construction. or crab boat( most dangerous jobs) for that matter. Yet they can produce a product that affects our daily lives not our menu.


I hope one day we can sit over a cup Java, I love a good discussion.
My last post here on this, filled up yesterday, unleaded 2.59 in Corpus Christi, Tx

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with just about any of this. I guese we'll have to leave it at that.

Our problem isn't political, it's basic supply and demand. We've both presented our arguments, let's just let them stand and be judged.

CD

[asianflava]

I'm with Glenn on this one. Seems like oil companies will use ANY excuse to increase prices i.e a storm took out the offshore rigs, a refinery explosion, refineries undergoing maintenance.

You never hear a reason for a price drop. When all the reasons for the price increases are fixed, how come the price doesn't return to the pre-excuse price.

They charge those prices because they know that we'll pay it.

[Ron Shaw]

Well, the danged stuff went up .17 cents a gallon down
here in West Ky. in just under 24 hours. Stuff is not $2.86 a gallon, and that's just for regular.

[LadybugAngel]

I happen to agree with Beachcamper on this one.

Where was the drilling many years ago when we should have. Instead they put a freeze on it. Where were the new refineries when we should have had them build... NOwhere cuz they put a freeze on them.

We should have planned for this many years ago when the economist told us to do it. We wouldn't be in the position we are now relying on the other countries to drill for us.

Instead now and then people complain about the rising prices and the money the oil companies are making... back then they didnt want them to drill because it would be more profits for the oil companies.... so lets put a strangle hold on them. NOT the right thing to do.

Since the gulf is opened up to start drilling the companies spend Bunches of money to get the rigs going and yes they make a profit but ya know what so do many other companies that I don't hear the complaints about. I can't have healthcare cuz its to dang expensive the dang health care companies are so dang greedy. But we don't hear anything about that like we do about the oil companies...why is that? Cuz some people are to stuck on the political aspect of it because our president is a former oilman. That is just flat out ridiculous and doesn't have anything to do with it.