Hostile & Abusive

[Bigwoods]

I am a Uinversity Of North Dakota fan. My kids graduated from UND. UND is sueing the NCAA because the NCAA will not allow UND to host any tournaments if the logo is visible. We have one of the finest hockey arenas in the world, donated by a benefactor, and the logo is plastered all over the place.

I might add the University strives to dispay the logo and the name with dignity. We have terrific Native studies and gradute a large number of Native physicians.

U of Illinois and Florida will be allowed to keep there Native American mascots and logos even when they have guys dressed up like Indians running out on the field.

My question is, since this is a very broad based group, do you find this hostile and abusive as it is called by the NCAA?






UND Fighting Sioux

BTW The logo was designed by a member of a tribe in our state.

[Miriam C.]

I'd say that is a very nice logo. Not hostile at all. I guess the NCAA doesn't want the faces of First Nations people portrayed on college campuses. Kind of shameful if the college has a large First Nations population. Kinda makes it look like it is a whity tighty organization with its nicker twisted.

Perhaps the Native popluation needs to make it's feelings known.

[Bigwoods]

Aunti M,

That where is gets tricky. They were granted permission in 1934, I think. When Natives are asked, some take great pride in the name, a few others think it is offensive. Actually, most of the opposition comes from UND professors that are sall we say, want to be very politically correct.


The Native Medical program is called InMed and is a great program to get Native Docs back to their people.

[Miriam C.]

Gee are they First Nations people. I bet they know what First Nations means. The words Fighting Sioux may portray Indians as violent to some professors, instead of strong good defenders of the homeland. Fighting is seen as negative these days.

I know there has been for some time a movement to not use Native mascotts as they were seen as demeaning. I wonder if they changed it to a picture of a white boy everyone would be happier. How would that express the local population? Or the history of the region. Good ole Irish boy would do it. Oh no Swede. Ya! I bet Finn would pose.

(am I being mean) I would say if the local popluation were offended and could articulate good cause it should be changed. Other wise, leave it the H alone.

[GHOSTSSX]

I am fed up to my eyeballs with PC crap!

I see nothing wrong with the logo and since it is not seen as offensive with the local native american tribes, it should be OK.

Also, the NCAA should be fair accross the board, not just ban those they can bully 'cause the don't generate alot of $$$$ for them.

When this all started I just wanted to puke!!

NCAA - go do something constructive!!!

CHUCK

[Arne]

If you force it into a strict black/white situation (no pun intended), if one person finds it offensive, then it is.... Get a 100 people to sign a petition and give it to the right overly-sensitive group and this is what you get.... No Christ in Christmas stuff.....

I wanted to ride my motorcycle down to Pebble Beach in Calif.. could not do it because all motorcycles were banned because, I suspect, some group of Harleys thundered in and broke the silence... so instead of being selective, they just banned them all...

So, it is easier to take the high road and ban all such displays, especially if there was some minor outcry, than to try to defend another position. The NCAA is sports, and does not want to get into the p/c area of making delicate decisions, so it just banned them all. Much easier to do if you think about it...

Actually, I do it all the time. I won't drive in certain areas just because of the type of people that live there. It does not mean all in that area are bad, but I do know that enouh are so I avoid them.. I also rarely deal with teenagers if I can help it as I don't understand them and their music and their display of underwear as a fashion statement.

[Bigwoods]

Thanks for the responses. I do feel it has become a PC issue. Some Native do not like it, but just as many or more take great pride in the name. It seem the majority of the flack comes from the English department PC types.

It goes to trial and we will see if we can get it resolved. Maybe someday we will have to pick a new name. I hope we don't go back to the old one. The Flickertails.. Sound tough-- Fighting Sioux or the Frightening Flickertails.

[GHOSTSSX]

What's a flickertail??

[angib]

And while someone's explaining what a flickertail is, can you also explain what is the difference between 'native american' and 'first nation'? As usual for foreigners, the distinction between other people's fashionable terminology isn't too obvious.

Andrew

[jay]

what's a "Native"?

[GHOSTSSX]

I think it is saying that American Indians were here first, as opposed to me saying I am a native american 'cause I was born here.

That's my guess - it is symantecs!!

I guess if we go back far enough........

Greeting across the pond!

CHUCK

[Miriam C.]

And while someone's explaining what a flickertail is, can you also explain what is the difference between 'native american' and 'first nation'? As usual for foreigners, the distinction between other people's fashionable terminology isn't too obvious.

Andrew

There is a strong movement for "First Nations" to be used instead of Indian. Currently to receive Government money or recognision the word Indian must be used. Hense: Haskell Indian University as opposed to Indian Nations University. My pet peeve. If you google Haskell Indian college you can get the ugly history.

Indians are from India. First Nations recognises that the people before us had distinct Nations not just a pack of roving wild people. It's a respect thing.

OH yeah- http://techfair.hpisd.org/9-12web/444/north_dakota.htm

I think Flickertail is a squirl

[Ira]

These are deep-rooted problems, because when the college was first founded, were Indians allowed to enroll in the first place?

Not taking any sides of the issue, because to me, the logo looks harmless.

But I'm not an Indian, and they might have some legitimate reasons that they feel it's degrading to them.

Remember--it's what they feel that matters. Not the caucasians.

[Miriam C.]

Ira I think the Native children of ND were still being forced to leave thier homes and board in white schools. Most were stripped of thier culture, language and personal safety. The University was founded in 1883 and ND gained statehood six years later. There may well have been Nations people going there. Education of "Indians" was forced not encouraged.

[Miriam C.]

Here ya go. This gives a better explanation of the origins of an official organization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Nations