Hmmm... I didn't know this.

Things that don't fit anywhere else...

Hmmm... I didn't know this.

Postby Podunkfla » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:48 am

Friends sure send me some interesting stuff.
I thought this was quite interesting, especially from a history standpoint...
Thought you might enjoy it as well. ~ Brick


What Thomas Jefferson learned from the Muslim book of jihad

By Ted Sampley http://www.usvetdsp.com/sampbio.htm
U.S. Veteran Dispatch January 2007

Democrat Keith Ellison is the first Muslim United States congressman. Ellison represents the 5th Congressional District of Minnesota. Capitol Hill staff said Ellison's swearing-in photo opportunity drew more media than they had ever seen in the history of the U.S. House. True to his pledge, he placed his hand on the Quran, the Muslim book of jihad, and pledged his allegiance to the United States during his ceremonial swearing-in. The Quran once belonged to Thomas Jefferson, third president of the United States and one of America's founding fathers. It is one of the 6,500 Jefferson books archived in the Rare Book Section of the Library of Congress.

Ellison, who was born in Detroit and converted to Islam while in college, said he chose to use Jefferson's Quran because it showed that "a visionary like Jefferson" believed that wisdom could be gleaned from many sources. There is no doubt Ellison was right about Jefferson believing wisdom could be "gleaned" from the Muslim Quran. At the time Jefferson owned the book, he needed to know everything possible about Muslims because he was about to advocate war against the Islamic "Barbary" states of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Tripoli.

Ellison's use of Jefferson's Quran as a prop illuminates a subject once well-known in the history of the United States, but, which today, is mostly forgotten - the Muslim pirate slavers who over many centuries enslaved millions of Africans and tens of thousands of Christian Europeans and Americans in the Islamic "Barbary" states. Over the course of 10 centuries, Muslim pirates cruised the African and Mediterranean coastline, pillaging villages and seizing slaves.

The taking of slaves in pre-dawn raids on unsuspecting coastal villages had a high casualty rate. It was typical of Muslim raiders to kill off as many of the "non-Muslim" older men and women as possible so the preferred "booty" of young women and children could be collected. Young non-Muslim women were targeted because of their value as concubines in Islamic markets. Islamic law provides for the sexual interests of Muslim men by allowing them to take as many as four wives at one time and to have as many concubines as their fortunes allow.

Boys, as young as 9 or 10 years old, were often mutilated to create eunuchs who would bring higher prices in the slave markets of the Middle East. Muslim slave traders created "eunuch stations" along major African slave routes so the necessary surgery could be performed. It was estimated that only a small number of the boys subjected to the mutilation survived after the surgery.

When American colonists rebelled against British rule in 1776, American merchant ships lost Royal Navy protection. With no American Navy for protection American ships were attacked and their Christian crews enslaved by Muslim pirates operating under the control of the "Dey of Algiers"--an Islamist warlord ruling Algeria. Because the pirates were destroying American commerce in the Mediterranean, the Continental Congress agreed in 1784 to negotiate treaties with the four Barbary States. Congress appointed a special commission consisting of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin, to oversee the negotiations.

Lacking the ability to protect its merchant ships in the Mediterranean, the new America government tried to appease the Muslim slavers by agreeing to pay tribute and ransoms in order to retrieve seized American ships and buy the freedom of enslaved sailors. Adams argued in favor of paying tribute as the cheapest way to get American commerce in the Mediterranean moving again. Jefferson was opposed. He believed there would be no end to the demands for tribute and wanted matters settled "through the medium of war." He proposed a league of trading nations to force an end to Muslim piracy. In 1786, Jefferson, then the American ambassador to France, and Adams, then the American ambassador to Britain, met in London with Sidi Haji
Abdul Rahman Adja, the "Dey of Algiers" ambassador to Britain.

The Americans wanted to negotiate a peace treaty based on Congress’ vote to appease. During the meeting Jefferson and Adams asked the Dey’s ambassador why Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with which they had no previous contacts.

In a later meeting with the American Congress, the two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had answered that Islam "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."

For the following 15 years, the American government paid the Muslims millions of dollars for the safe passage of American ships or the return of American hostages. The payments in ransom and tribute amounted to 20 percent of United States government annual revenues in 1800.
Not long after Jefferson's inauguration as president in 1801, he dispatched a group of frigates to defend American interests in the Mediterranean, and informed Congress. Declaring that America was going to spend "millions for defense but not one cent for tribute,"

Jefferson pressed the issue by deploying American Marines and many of America's best warships to the Muslim Barbary Coast. The USS Constitution, USS Constellation, USS Philadelphia, USS Chesapeake, USS Argus, USS Syren and USS Intrepid all saw action.

In 1805, American Marines marched across the dessert from Egypt into Tripolitania, forcing the surrender of Tripoli and the freeing of all American slaves. During the Jefferson administration, the Muslim Barbary States, crumbling as a result of intense American naval bombardment and on shore raids by Marines, finally officially agreed to abandon slavery and piracy.

Jefferson's victory over the Muslims lives on today in the Marine Hymn, with the line, "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, we will fight our country's battles on the land as on the sea." It wasn't until 1815 that the problem was fully settled by the total defeat of all the Muslim slave trading pirates. Jefferson had been right. The "medium of war" was the only way to put and end to the Muslim problem. Mr. Ellison was right about Jefferson.
He was a "visionary" wise enough to read and learn about the enemy from their own Muslim book of jihad. :thumbsup:
<B>~ Brick
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Postby bledsoe3 » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:20 am

Very interesting. Thanks Brick.
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Postby Juneaudave » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:41 am

Hummm....that's not the spin I got out of the national media ... :thinking: :thinking:
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Postby Podunkfla » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:56 am

Juneaudave wrote:Hummm....that's not the spin I got out of the national media ... :thinking: :thinking:


Me either? Quite an eye opener... huh? Just puts Bush's puny efforts to cure these people of their evil ways into a different perspective for me. We're sure not going to change them... Now, they just hate us even more. Probably the most dangerous people on earth are religious zealots. :o
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Postby Nitetimes » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:01 am

Podunkfla wrote: Probably the most dangerous people on earth are religious zealots. :o


Religion has been the cause of nearly every war this world has ever seen.
Along with a long list of other things it has caused.
Rich


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Postby Ira » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:55 am

I'm trying to fully understand the OTHER major point to this great story:

The fact that that guy used that Koran to make his pledge.

Is this an example of incredible irony, contempt, ignorance--or all three?
Here we go again!
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Postby Joseph » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:35 am

Ira wrote:The fact that that guy used that Koran to make his pledge.

Is this an example of incredible irony, contempt, ignorance--or all three?

The fact that he got elected is what I find disturbing. But that being done, what else could he make it on? The Bible is meaningless to him. Maybe "Cross my heart and hope you... I mean... hope to die?"

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Postby Elumia » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:42 am

I say consider the source. Go to Ted Sampley's web page and read some of the other articles there, and then make your decision.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/index.html

Reading the article on Barak Obama only gives a hint of the next political season....


This link is also on Mr. Sampley's site
http://www.godresolution.com/

I don't understand in a this country why anyone is so afraid of religion, any religion. If someone wants to be sworn in with their hand on the Betty Crocker cookbook why should it matter? Maybe we should make everyone put their paws on a copy of the constitiution.

Which leads me to ask, what is the difference between this and sharia law? I don't want either.

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Postby Joseph » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:55 am

Elumia wrote:I don't understand in a this country why anyone is so afraid of religion, any religion. If someone wants to be sworn in with their hand on the Betty Crocker cookbook why should it matter? Maybe we should make everyone put their paws on a copy of the constitiution

An oath is calling upon some higher power (in our society, God) to witness the the promise you are making and presumably, punish you if you break it. Swearing on the Betty Crocker Cookbook or the Constitution would only be an option if you worshipped Betty Crocker or the Founding Fathers, respectively.

For those who don't believe in anything higher than themselves, then an oath is no more than a simple promise.

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Postby Ira » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:40 pm

Elumia wrote:I don't understand in a this country why anyone is so afraid of religion, any religion.


The Christian right scares the CRAP out of me.

Like, have you ever seen Pat Robertson EAT!?
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Postby Joseph » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:46 pm

Ira wrote:
Elumia wrote:The Christian right scares the CRAP out of me.
Like, have you ever seen Pat Robertson EAT!?

I'm no fan of his, but really - have you ever seen him cut somebody's head off?

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Postby Ira » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:20 pm

Joseph wrote:
Ira wrote:
Elumia wrote:The Christian right scares the CRAP out of me.
Like, have you ever seen Pat Robertson EAT!?

I'm no fan of his, but really - have you ever seen him cut somebody's head off?

Joseph


Uhhhh...

The guy said we should assassinate Hugo Chavez. Is there a difference between that and beheading?

How CHRISTIAN of him!

Okay Joseph--bring it on:

The 10,000-word post and 50 links that help you say you didn't REALLY mean what you said...and that Robertson DIDN'T publicly advocate the assassination of a foreign head of state...but even if he DID, that he didn't actually DO it himself...or that he wasn't serious.

A religious asshole is a religious asshole--regardless of the religion.
Last edited by Ira on Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Elumia » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:23 pm

From the US Library of congress:

Paying the ransom would only lead to further demands, Jefferson argued in letters to future presidents John Adams, then America's minister to Great Britain, and James Monroe, then a member of Congress. As Jefferson wrote to Adams in a July 11, 1786, letter, "I acknolege [sic] I very early thought it would be best to effect a peace thro' the medium of war." Paying tribute will merely invite more demands, and even if a coalition proves workable, the only solution is a strong navy that can reach the pirates, Jefferson argued in an August 18, 1786, letter to James Monroe: "The states must see the rod; perhaps it must be felt by some one of them. . . . Every national citizen must wish to see an effective instrument of coercion, and should fear to see it on any other element than the water. A naval force can never endanger our liberties, nor occasion bloodshed; a land force would do both." "From what I learn from the temper of my countrymen and their tenaciousness of their money," Jefferson added in a December 26, 1786, letter to the president of Yale College, Ezra Stiles, "it will be more easy to raise ships and men to fight these pirates into reason, than money to bribe them."

Full text at:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections ... prece.html

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Postby Ira » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:25 pm

Elumia wrote:From the US Library of congress:

Paying the ransom would only lead to further demands, Jefferson argued in letters to future presidents John Adams, then America's minister to Great Britain, and James Monroe, then a member of Congress. As Jefferson wrote to Adams in a July 11, 1786, letter, "I acknolege [sic] I very early thought it would be best to effect a peace thro' the medium of war." Paying tribute will merely invite more demands, and even if a coalition proves workable, the only solution is a strong navy that can reach the pirates, Jefferson argued in an August 18, 1786, letter to James Monroe: "The states must see the rod; perhaps it must be felt by some one of them. . . . Every national citizen must wish to see an effective instrument of coercion, and should fear to see it on any other element than the water. A naval force can never endanger our liberties, nor occasion bloodshed; a land force would do both." "From what I learn from the temper of my countrymen and their tenaciousness of their money," Jefferson added in a December 26, 1786, letter to the president of Yale College, Ezra Stiles, "it will be more easy to raise ships and men to fight these pirates into reason, than money to bribe them."

Full text at:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections ... prece.html

Mark


Can you give me the idiot's guide to this? I'm totally confused and need a synopsis that a 3rd grader would understand.
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Postby Elumia » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:42 pm

Since I couldn't find you a link to Thomas Jefferson for dummies...

Jefferson fought a foreign war to protect American economic interests, with or without European "coalition".

And this sounds kinda like your buddy dubya:

"The humiliating loss of the frigate Philadelphia and the capture of her captain and crew in Tripoli in 1803, criticism from his political opponents, and even opposition within his own cabinet did not deter Jefferson from his chosen course during four years of war."

and this sounds like the "war on Terrorism"

In fact, it was not until the second war with Algiers, in 1815, that naval victories by Commodores William Bainbridge and Stephen Decatur led to treaties ending all tribute payments by the United States. European nations continued annual payments until the 1830s. However, international piracy in Atlantic and Mediterranean waters declined during this time under pressure from the Euro-American nations, who no longer viewed pirate states as mere annoyances during peacetime and potential allies during war.

But I think the US has still believed in the policy of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.....
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