Back Surgery - A Question

[Mike C.]

I figured on a forum with this many people that someone could answer a question for me.

I have had back problems for several years and last year I had a CAT scan done and the doctor told me I have " lumbar spinal stenosis " which is apparently a narrowing of the spinal column in the lumbar region. This puts pressure on the nerves that protrude from that area. The doctor said I also have 5 disks in the lumbar region that are " moderately bulging", a couple worse than the others. He also told me that I would probably have to have surgery this year, next year, or at the outside in five years. That is where my question comes in. Has anyone here had surgery in that region, and if yes, what did they do, how did it come out and are you happy with the results? I guess I have a fear of anyone cutting on my spine. My doctor told me there are a lot of new techniques and that back surgery now, is different than it was, even five years ago.

So, there you have it. Any information would be helpful, especially if you have " been there, done that."

[t-vicky]

Mike, My wife had that done just about a year ago. She came thur the surgery just fine & is pain free & doing fine. The problem she had was with the anaesthetic? I think they gave her to much & it messed up her bowels. Everything is fine & she would do it again. Roger

[goldcoop]

Mike-

Yep, been there.

20 years ago EXPLODED disc between L5&S1.

Over 230 pcs.of disc material removed. Also had stenosis which is narrowing of the canal.

A good friend was the Op room head nurse that filled me in on the details.

The surgeon had to CHISEL out the calcium deposits/bone to enlarge the channel.

Was told then I'd have to have follow up surgery in 5 years, never did.

BUT getting close to needing a tune up now.

My best advice: Get a Neuro Surgeon to do this (not an Orthopedic Surgeon) who has a good reputation/track record.

Neuro guys are used to dealing with delicate nerves, etc.

Ortho guys are best left to bolting broken bones.

Do you have mild or severe numbness/tingling in the legs and/or arse?

I had total paralisis in my right leg and right foot drop until I finally got in for Surgery!

Good Luck!

Cheers,

Coop

[Mike C.]

Roger,

Thanks for the info and the knowledge of a good outcome.

coop,

Your scaring me. The word spine and chisel should never be used together. I sometimes feel numb in my thigh muscles, kind of like my leg is not there, but truthfully it is the constant pain that gets me. The doctor now has me on enough pain meds to drop most horses, so I'm not sure what I feel. That is the reason I'm considering surgery, to get off all this medicine.

[goldcoop]

Mike-

I feel your pain brother!

I was drinking Johnny Walker scotch & popping Percocets like candy!

I couldn't get comfortable no matter what; lying down, sitting, standing, did not matter!

If you are CONSTANTLY in pain, you are ready and need surgery.

I would have (and did) done ANYTHING to make the pain go away!

I remember coming out of anestesia and wiggling my right big toe and getting a big smile on my face 'cause I knew I was "fixed"

OK did you get the part about the Neuro Surgeon?

Kinda like the difference between a Chevy mechanic and a Ferrari mechanic...

You really want the Ferrari mechanic!

Don't worry about the CHISEL, you won't even know it!



Cheers,

Coop

[BrwBier]

For a while now their have been adds on a Milwaukee radio station for a pain clinic. http://www.wklh.com/ It is called radio frequency dimerization, or something like that. It has to do with shrinking disks to relive pain with no surgery. All I know is the adds I've heard, maybe worth checking.
Brwbier

[t-vicky]

Mike, If you want to come to Wichita to have it done I can give you the name of a good surgeon.

[sledge]

Yes , I have had 4 back surgerys , first 3 didn't help much if any. But the last one was May of 2005 , the removed 3 disks , L3 L4 and L5 , and put Cages in there , with steal rods , plates and screws , and although it was rough to start with, it really did help me A LOT. and now I'm in less pain most of the time, than I had been in many years. BUT....... I still hurt a lot , But.........I was almost beyond walking. ... so all in all, I would do it again in a second. give it some real thought , talk it over with the surgeon and deside for yourself..... all my best wishes and good luck.

[Nitetimes]

The biggest thing that will get you as far as the pain goes is if you already have nerve damage from it. I had surgery 7 years ago but the nerve damage I got from living with the problem I had for too long left me in pain that I will endure 24/7 for the rest of my life.
If there is any chance that an operation will help do it sooner than later because later can have serious effects on the spinal column where the nerves are and that's where the really bad constant pain comes from.
There is no cure for nerve damage....drugs are it if you want to be dumbed down every day.

[Kens]

Been there done that. Ruptured disc in L5 area. Nerve damage down my leg but not bad enough to have the "drop foot". Stenosis that too ground that out while in there. Would I do it again? in a second most of the time pain free. Doc said your now like a wrecked car that has been fixed you will never be 100% Best of luck.

[toypusher]

I've had back problems for years (about 15 or 20) and have the same problems as you have. I have been told by several doctors that I should not have surgery until the pain is too severe to take any more. I have done physical theraphy with great sucess in the past and will continue when ever it starts getting bad again.

I also was warned to have a Neuro Surgeon because of the nerves and the possibility of permanent damage.

Best of luck with this!

[Mike C.]

Thanks all I get it, a Neuro-surgeon.

My doctor referred me to a Pain Management Doctor. Not a pleasant experience. While sitting on a table with a nurse gripping each shoulder, the doctor injected me with a needle that had to be 10" long. I am surprised it didn't come out the front of me. Anyway, he was trying to inject some sort of numbing medication into each of the nerves in my lower back. I was supposed to tell him when he hit a nerve, but it hurt so bad, I couldn't speak. He just kept poking me, saying " do you feel that yet?" I swear I ripped the top of the table off, with my fingers, but nothing would come out of my mouth. Miriam finally had to tell him, that she thought he had hit them. She could tell from the tears coming out of my eyes. He wanted me to return, but I told him that I had received all the pain management I could handle.

So my regular doctor now has me on pain meds. 30mg morphine, 30-60mg of vicodin and 2400+ mg of skelaxin a day. I must tolerate pain medicine well, because some days I can't tell it is doing anything. I still work everyday and drive a car with no accidents or even close calls.

So, I guess that to get off all of this stuff, I will probably have to let some Neuro-surgeon cut on me at some point. But my doctor told me not to do it until he has to increase my pain meds to the point where I can't function. I hate to think when that will be.

[CPASPARKS]

Hi Mike,
Sorry to hear about the back problem.

I too suffered the same problem. Two different doctors told me that if I did not have the surgery for spinal stenosis, I would be in a wheelchair.

I had it done 9 years ago. I am virtually pain free, but suffered permanent nerve damage from waiting too long to have surgery.

Everyone has differerent opinions, but I think you should have it done sooner better than later.

Good luck Bro.

[Gaelen]

Man, now you guys are scaring *me* and I didn't even ask the question.
I've had back problems most of my adult life.

I slipped on ice and fell down on a hill at 18, first year of college. In retrospect, my tight down ski jacket probably served as a form of binding cast to keep my spine 'in line' during the fall, kind of like a ski boot can stabilize a broken ankle. But I was young and very healthy and active. I did PT and took pain meds and got (I thought) better.

Intermittent back pain over the years if I did something stupid, but I went back to my PT exercises and got through it. I have a high pain tolerance, but a very low tolerance for pain meds--they knock me right out. So I managed most of the time with PT.

Fast forward 25 years. Been doing yoga and pilates at advanced and master levels for years, so my core muscles are pretty strong. Finally lost most of the weight I'd picked up in my 30s, and was in what I thought was pretty good shape. Had a very physical job (part of which involved catching monkeys and dogs and moving heavy cages), had very physical hobbies (dog training, volunteer medic.) And then, at 48, after only about 8 weeks of symptoms--Stage IV rectal cancer. Initially inoperable. Went through 39 rounds of chemo, two abdominal surgeries and a liver resection since 2004.

On top of that, I fell (tripped over a cat) while recovering from the first ab surgery, and hyperextended the left knee to put a slight tear in my MCL. Right knee is already weak (tore that ACL a few years earlier, another slip on ice.) Oncologist won't even let me get a manicure, much less arthroscopic knee surgery, so my ortho guy gives me exercises and once again, I do them religiously and think I'm getting better. I am actually putting serious strain on my left hip, but...

Second ab surgery--liver resection--uses the same incision as the first one, and viola, within months I have two abdominal hernias. No more pilates or yoga, no exercises that stress my abs/core at all because of the risk of aggravating the hernias. I can do cardio, but no ab exercises, and I've gained about 50 lbs from the steroids in the chemo. But I start losing some of the weight, I am feeling a lot better, so I start stair climbing to get back into shape to train my new agility dog (think sprints for an hour on frozen ground, with a lot of bending and twisting ...)

After agility classes, the lower back pain is on high, and the exercises just weren't helping. First worry--cancer mets. Nope, all clear. Docs put me on 200mg celebrex twice a day, which at least doesn't put me to sleep. Lyrica is the other drug--not sure if that makes the pain go away, or just makes me not care, but I can only take it at night. I can't work on it and I sure can't drive! Four CT scans finally show spondylolisthesis from L1-L5, and the local oncologist referred me to an ortho guy and his PTs.

PTs are concerned that I didn't get PT after the ab surgeries and that there's a lot of scar tissue and left hip compensatory damage from dealing with the torn MCL in my left knee. So they start working on that in July...but every time they add new exercises or more reps, I am racked up for two-three days. I've taken more sick days from back pain issues in the last six months than I took in three years of cancer treatments! The PT and ortho doc finally ordered an MRI three weeks ago--in addition to the spondylolisthesis, I have a herniated disc between L5-S1, definitely a newer herniation. I can't step off midline with the left foot, twist or turn, not supposed to do stairs, can't carelessly get out of the car but have to turn my whole body, and even have to sleep in a sleeping bag so that my left knee doesn't 'fall out' and wake me up in pain. Can't crank up the hitch on the trailer, either--no stretching or bending. If I forget, the pain is literally so sharp that it will take my breath away.

The PT is helping, and now that they know there's a herniation, they will modify my PT still more so that new exercises don't take me out of commission. I haven't needed supplementary pain meds (besides the Celebrex) for about three weeks. The numbness in my left toes and the pain radiating down that leg are gone as long as I don't step off midline on my left foot. And I've only had one day in the last month when I came home and absolutely couldn't find a comfortable position. I was able to go camping last weekend and show dogs for four days (a lot of standing and walking) although I was a lot more comfortable knowing that there were friends around who could step up if my back just gave out.

I am going to stick with the PT approach for as long as possible. I would just like to get through a whole calendar year without having major surgery. My MSKCC oncologist is still not at all interested in letting another doc cut into her million dollar mouse, either.

[Mike C.]

CPASPARKS,

Thanks for the advice and the good luck. Why did you have nerve damage? Too long under pressure?


Gaelen,

I thought I felt bad until I read about your problems. Boy, you have been through quite an ordeal. Hope you are feeling better now, if that is possible. I think I need to send some of CPASPARKS luck to you, so GOOD LUCK.