Science question

[48Rob]

I keep bottled water in my fridge.

I also keep beer in my fridge.
I keep the temperature pretty low so the beer is as cold as it can get without freezing.

Since the alcohol lowers the freezing point of the beer, I can understand why sometimes my bottled water also freezes.

My question is, why do some of the bottles freeze, while others do not?
It appears to be random, that is, the odd bottle will freeze, or not...

Is it the amount of air in the water, or...?

Rob

[Creamcracker]

I keep bottled water in my fridge.

I also keep beer in my fridge.
I keep the temperature pretty low so the beer is as cold as it can get without freezing.

Since the alcohol lowers the freezing point of the beer, I can understand why sometimes my bottled water also freezes.

My question is, why do some of the bottles freeze, while others do not?
It appears to be random, that is, the odd bottle will freeze, or not...

Is it the amount of air in the water, or...?



Rob

So you'ld need to start asking yourself.....are all the bottles the same size and same manufacturer? Are the bottles the same shape?
Are the bottles always in the same spot in the fridge?
Strange as this question sounds .....is the water frozen BEFORE you pick the bottle up? Water can be below 32degrees F and still not freeze (depends on several factors) but when disturbed by being picked up it can then freeze....it's a process linked to "supercooling"

A further thought...the more pure the water the less likely it would be to freeze ...or put it another way a bottle with even the slightest impurity (could be a speck of dust) is more likely to begin the process of freezing.
Philip

[kyacker]

Further, there's an insulating effect of ice. The outer bottles will freeze first and will essentially keep the inner bottles "warmer". This is the theory behind spraying orange groves with water when there's going to be an early/late freeze in the tropical states.

[caseydog]

Very pure water in a perfectly clean, smooth bottle is probably capable of allowing supercooling of the water. It is a very delicate balance, but it is possible that there is just no place for crystallization to begin at the exact temperature of your beer fridge, with some bottles of water. That would be a rather freak occurrence, which sounds like what you are seeing.

So, it could be the difference of purity from one bottle to another, or a difference in the bottles themselves.

As an experiment, when you have some frozen bottles and some not frozen, take a non frozen one and shake it up, and see if it freezes after that.

My only real life experience with supercooling is when I have opened a very cold beer, and the first drink is ice-cold beer, and by the time I go for the next drink, my beer is frozen solid. That is caused by the release of pressure, though.

CD

[ATXKJ]

Well it's always possible to have variation in water bottles either volume, purity or initial temperature - which will all change the time necessary to freeze the bottle.

However I suspect the real answer is that the refrigerator is not uniformly cold, it has spots of very cold - near the evaporator coils, and spot of relative warm - near door seals - and in between lesser cold areas where the insulation isn't as thick - near motors, pipes, frame - ect. These localized spots of heat /cold cause convection circulation. And items in the fridge will change the circulation path. So some bottles will be in colder areas than others.

[Larwyn]

Well it's always possible to have variation in water bottles either volume, purity or initial temperature - which will all change the time necessary to freeze the bottle.

However I suspect the real answer is that the refrigerator is not uniformly cold, it has spots of very cold - near the evaporator coils, and spot of relative warm - near door seals - and in between lesser cold areas where the insulation isn't as thick - near motors, pipes, frame - ect. These localized spots of heat /cold cause convection circulation. And items in the fridge will change the circulation path. So some bottles will be in colder areas than others.

Just as I suspected, the frozen ones are colder than the others......

[cccamper]

Isn't it hard to imagine getting bottled water so EXTREMELY pure it will barely freeze?

I virtually always get the same brand of spring water. Out of all the bottles I've had, one would not freeze - even slightly. In winter I leave them on the back porch because I like to have them frozen. This one just never froze over at least a month's time of very cold weather. THe others freeze the first day.

Wrote to the company and asked them about it. It was like asking a question of a political candidate. THe thing is, it didn't even get slightly frosty. Couldn't imagine how the bottle and/or water were the same as all the others.

But they didn't fool me! No tainted Tylenol for me (ya gotta be older) I threw that thang away!

yup

e

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

Rob,
Mark which bottles freeze and trade the freshly frozen ones places with the non frozen bottles and see if the ones that weren't freezing now freeze.
If that happens, it the refridgerator causing it.
If the non freezing bottles still don't freeze... I can't help you.

[devigata]

Could it be because of "imperfections" in the manufacturing of the bottles?

[48Rob]

Thanks all,

I suspected it might be a difference in the amount of oxygen in the water.

They are all the same brand, same size, and I hope...decent quality...

I'll try moving a few around, and shaking some up, but conclusive tests will be difficult, as several bottles of water, and a couple cans are removed each day, changing the setup.

The fridge being uniformly cold, or not, no doubt also contributes.

Thank you for all the thoughts and comments!
It isn't one of those questions that keep me awake at night, just a curiosity.

Another of the prices that must be paid for a cold beer!

Rob

[Mini Renegade]

does it really matter as long as the beer doesn`t freeze

[satch]

I wouldn't know, since, they never stay in the refer long enough to freeze

[Larwyn]

A couple of Monday's ago, I was headed out to do some welding and decided I might like a cold drink. So I carried along my "super modified" (gasket and latches) ice chest. I filled the chest with water, gator aid and beer, added two bags of ice and a handful of rock salt. By the end of the day every bottle of water I tried to drink was half ice. The first beer I had after getting home was very cold, the next one was frozen and simply foamed over the top so bad I had to leave it outside. I must not have tried a gator aid as I do not recall how it reacted to the ice/salt mixture. When my wife got home I offered her a bottle of water, thinking it would be funny when she realized she could only drink less than half due to the frozen state of most of the contents. Surprisingly, that must have been the only bottle in the batch which refused to freeze at all. So there might just be something to all those "science type answers"....

[caseydog]

I found a web site where you can ask science questions, and posted our question. If they choose to answer it, I should know in a few days what that answer is.

Physics is Phun!

[mikeschn]

My only question is "how does adding rock salt to ice make it colder"?

Mike...