Are there any plumbers here?

[Wimperdink]

I have a funky happening here tonight and I am not a plumber. I think I understand whats going on but looking for advice if any of you have experience to offer.

My hot water shut off tonight. The cold water runs fine, but there is just nothing coming out of the hot water side in all the fixtures in my house. I tested the relief valve near the top of the water heater and same goes there... pressure for just a second and then nothing. It almost seems like the cold water inlet is plugged. Its 3/4" copper pipe with a ball valve shutoff on the way in. Anyone have experience with this and know of a common place that the pipes can plug up?

My first thought was possible silt/rust/calcium build up on the bottom of the tank could build up high enough to plug the inlet pipe so I tried opening the drain valve to see if it was plugged. I had a bit of white water come out, then it ran clear and flowed fast.

Also thinking I might add, that the house is only 4 years old so the heater isn't that old either. We do get a bit of calcium build up around the outlets of our faucets.

Any help or advice appreciated. Thanks

[Micro469]

You don't say if it's a gas or electric heater. One thing you can try is turn the heater off , shut off the cold water inlet and drain the heater. Turn the cold water inlet back on, and if it fills up the blockage is in the hot water outlet...................If it doesn't fill up, then the blockage is in the cold water inlet.......... Pipes didn't freeze did they????

[Wimperdink]

You don't say if it's a gas or electric heater. One thing you can try is turn the heater off , shut off the cold water inlet and drain the heater. Turn the cold water inlet back on, and if it fills up the blockage is in the hot water outlet...................If it doesn't fill up, then the blockage is in the cold water inlet.......... Pipes didn't freeze did they????

Your right, I forgot. Its electric. The pipes didnt freeze no. All the pipes run under the house and its typically much warmer under the house than outside temp. That and all the other cold faucets work which means everything under the house except the t off to the heater has to be non plugged. As for draining the heater to check inlet/outlet, I think I accomplished that by holding the relief valve open. I would think if the cold inlet side were freely filling the tank, the relief valve would have continuously blown water out, instead it acted like the faucets indicating the tank wasn't filling properly.

Update : I went to the store and came home and all of a sudden my hot water is flowing again. Its with less pressure than usual but at least its flowing. Now i'm really perplexed.

[Miriam C.]

Now you just gotta wonder if the hot water heater was used or you have a lot of mineral content in your water.

Right before our water heater went the hot water farthest from the heater quit getting good pressure. Then when we changed the heater lots of rusty water came out of that faucet. I turned on all the faucets and let them run for a minute.

The new one is a glassed lined Kenmore.

[48Rob]

My vote is a frozen pipe.

If it was sediment, when you open a faucet and let it run, you'll see the stuff that was plugging the line.

Frozen pipes can and do happen inside the house.
All it takes is a remote area that is not close enough to a heat source.

Behind a bathtub, under a sink on a North wall, in a chase.
In your situation, it could be where the pipes go through the floor.

If all the hot faucets were blocked, look between the hot water heater and the first faucet on the run, that is where you'll find the trouble.

Rob

[bobhenry]

Those of us in the frozen north know that in most cases the hot water lines are the first to freeze. I know it doesn't make sense but it is the case. Put hot water in an ice cube tray and cold water in an identical tray and see which one freezes first in your freezer.

The calcium Carbonate ( the white flakes) will eventually trash a hot water heater. Turn it off when the weather is better and shut of the inlet and drain the unit by placing a hose on the drain and open it and the pop off vent. Let it fill and re drain to get most of the junk out. By adding a whole house water filter upstream you can eliminate this problem before it get to your water heater. These units are about $70.00 and the filters are 4 - 7 bucks and will last about a month maybe more. I agree with Rob you had a frozen pipe when it warmed by mid afternoon it fixed itsself. Up here we would have had broken pipes and a PITA repair to do.

[Wimperdink]

well I forgot to mention that the water heater was the first T off the cold supply line. Also as for the frozen line, its on an inside wall and it really hasn't been cold enough to freeze the lines here yet. In talking to the folks at the local hardware store, they ask if I was on "such n such" water company. Yep I am. They said we have the worst water they've ever seen. When I pulled the top element, it was absolutly covered in calcium deposits. I've got a hose running from the drain to outside and opened up the valve. Its taken about 2 hours and the level still isnt down past the lower element yet. I believe like the hardware store folks said, its probably jam packed up with sediment and deposits. I'm going to try the flush with cider vinegar as was suggested and also pick at the bottom of the inlet tube with a wire hanger to see if I can get any thing to break loose. Otherwise, its still under waranty and whirlpool stated that its to free replacement other than labor costs. My labor doesnt cost anything until I screw it up so bad I have to hire a plumber. If it gets that far, I expect a $50 you screwed it up fee on top of whatever labor.

Bob I think you've got it nailed with the calcium issue.

[Wimperdink]

update.... Finally got the bottom element out.... the tank is soo full of white flakes and chunks that it is almost level with the bottom element. The good news is that its all loose flakes rather than one solid mass...

My question now is, Is it worth getting the tank out of there and trying to shake all the flakes out of the element holes, or just replace it? I really dont like the thought of another 300 - 400 dollar water heater right now.

Also, will the recomended apple cider vinegar soak really disolve this stuff?

[DrCrash]

will the recomended apple cider vinegar soak really disolve this stuff?

Yes it will disolve the minerls and the tank lining unless it is marked " Glass lined".

You said you have the lower element out. What I have done many times in the past is take a rod and work the crud at the botom of the tank loose. Then open the drain valve on the bottom, hook a garden hose to it. Then put the lower element back in , hand tight.
If you have a hot water shut off, close it. If not make sure all faucets are off. Then refill and bring the tank back up to pressure. all the crud should wash out the garden hose.

You might have to repeat this several times to get the most of scale out.

The scale is caused from the upper element heating and cooling . This is totaly normal for hard water.
The bad thing is it will settle on the lower element and when it finaly covers the lower element. The element cannot cool off and will burn out. So you want to get as much of the scale off the bottom of the tank.

Jim.
sorry about the grammer on this one i am in a hurry but wanted you to have this info.

[Wimperdink]

I appreciate the responses....

I removed it and took it outside to mess with it. Since there was so much crud in the bottom, and the chunks were big enough to not go down a garden hose, I figured I had nothing to lose. I took it outside and with both elements out I was pouring the crud out of the element holes. After getting a bunch of that out I looked at the water inlet hole. It was blocked so solid I couldnt blow air through there. I set it by the garage and went and bought a new one. I need a hot shower tonight. Thanks for the help folks. I know this is a teardrop board, but there's a lot of enterprising people here and I knew someone would have ideas. Thanks.

[Micro469]

I appreciate the responses....

I removed it and took it outside to mess with it. Since there was so much crud in the bottom, and the chunks were big enough to not go down a garden hose, I figured I had nothing to lose. I took it outside and with both elements out I was pouring the crud out of the element holes. After getting a bunch of that out I looked at the water inlet hole. It was blocked so solid I couldnt blow air through there. I set it by the garage and went and bought a new one. I need a hot shower tonight. Thanks for the help folks. I know this is a teardrop board, but there's a lot of enterprising people here and I knew someone would have ideas. Thanks.

Sounds like you could use a water softening system. Probably be cheaper than replacing the tank every four years...... better for you too.

[Wimperdink]

well I spoke to a neighbor about it that has one.... The maintenance on his softener is more expensive than replacing a water heater every 4 years. My solution is to put a nice long piece of masking tape down the side of the tank with dates every 6 months as recommended. As I drain and flush the tank I cross out a date. This one was never maintained as I've never thought about it. This is the first time I've ever had to replace a water heater. Expensive lesson, but now I'll start flushing it on recommended intervals and hopefully get a lil longer life out of this one.

[starleen2]

Is your new one glass lined??

[Wimperdink]

nope.... Same model as the last one.

[Dark Horse]

What maintence on a softner? Once installed they are self flushing. all you need to do is make sure there is salt in the brine tank. Here in WI its costs me ~$50 a year. We have rocks in our water for its hardness level.
Hard water doesn't only trash the hot water heater, It will precipitate out and plug the pipes - This takes years to notice any sort of film in the pipes then gradualy increases in pace
It trashes the Fixtures in the house with calcium build up - also destroys the finish on them if not removed quickly. The hotwater heaters are just the first place its noticed.