A morality quiz for you--but do you have any also?

[IraRat]

I have to get it off my chest. I'm stuck with a morality/ethics question:

We have something in Florida called SunPass, which is our version of the automatic toll-paying system (transponder in your car). How this company got the contract in the first place, I don't know--but that's another ethics question.

Anyway, I don't have SunPass, due to my natural aversion to anything that resembles Big Brother, plus I don't trust their billing system.

Well, my normal route home from work involves jumping on a highway for just two exits, and these have two unmanned toll booths only. Both accept Sunpass, and one also accepts exact change. Lo and behold, like 6 weeks ago, while fiddling to find the change, a car passed in the other lane--and activated MY "Thank you, Drive Safely" green light.

So I beat the system for 75 cents, and I'm smiling.

But I've been beating the system every day for the past 6 weeks. All I have to do is wait for a car to pass to the right of me, and I'm good to go. But this gets even weirder:

This week, I noticed that I don't even have to wait for another car. I just have to wait 5 seconds, and it's a green light and full speed ahead.

Am I going to hell? (For this reason alone, not the others.) And have you ever been similarly tempted and did what you thought was the wrong or right thing in a "questionable" situation?

[Turtle49]

This question would have to be similar to getting incorrect change at a store...everyday. On the one hand it is their mistake for not making it a fool proof system. On the other hand you are not paying the toll that ultimately pays for the road that you use, even if it is for only 2 exits.
I would have to ask you this, if a checkout girl at the grocery gave you back to much money, would you give it back? This is one of those questions that you simply have to answer for yourself. Each of our actions define us.
That being said, I honestly don't know if I would pay or not.


I will have to ponder it.

[D. Tillery]

It is like B-Law 101. If you get a "free" newspaper delivered for a month or so, take them and read them, you have "subscribed" to the paper and are probably going to be liable for paying for them because you knew the gig. Let them pile up on the lawn and you'd be OK. If/when you get caught you may be in for quite a bill.

But as everyone knows legal and moral are two very different issues. Come on, of course you are morally liable for it. But it is great to stick it to "the man" when you can!

Oh yea, It cost me $26 to drive the PENN Turnpike on my way up to RI. $26!!! for a state the size most good beer drinkers could pee across. And the road was junk. Nice, pretty country though but $26!

D. Tillery

[IraRat]

That's the thing, Turtle--I have received too much change at a store, more than once, and I've always given it back. I don't know if this is because I don't want to personally hurt someone who might be liable for the difference (even if it was a "comfortable" store owner), or because I do believe it's wrong to take it because it isn't mine.

And Karmic-wise, I would suffer.

But also, from a dollars-and-cents examination of this, I really don't buy the argument that a lot of our tolls go to fixing the roads anyway. It's often just an extra tax used elswehere, and many of the country's bridges, tunnels and roads have been paid for 50 times over.

Maybe that's why in my mind, right or wrong as I may be, it doesn't bother me that much.

But here's something else, Till:

Sunpass owners pay a quarter less here, so why have I been charged a quarter more for all of this time, just because I don't want to buy the damn thing and have my money earning interest in THEIR account?

[Chris C]

Ira,

Don't ask us............................ask God! He's the one with the "delete button".

[madjack]

...based on the first question alone, a psychological profile test would find you to be dishonest...giving back the excess change evens that out since that "shortage" would have to be made up by the cashier(usualy)...Karmatically...it's the government you are shorting and they have been ripping you off for years and will continue to do so, so I wouldn't worry too much about "ghia" coming to get you...however if you get busted doing it or have a breakdown on that hi-way, wellllllll...............................ghia has raised it's ugly head
madjack

[IraRat]

...based on the first question alone, a psychological profile test would find you to be dishonest...giving back the excess change evens that out since that "shortage" would have to be made up by the cashier(usualy)...Karmatically...it's the government you are shorting and they have been ripping you off for years and will continue to do so, so I wouldn't worry too much about "ghia" coming to get you...however if you get busted doing it or have a breakdown on that hi-way, wellllllll...............................ghia has raised it's ugly head
madjack

Ohhh--Jack knows "ghia." But I couldn't figure out the "karma" usage. I was leaning toward "karmically" instead of your "karmatically," so I changed the sentence structure.

And I don't believe in God, Chris, but I don't believe you have to in order to do the right thing. It just feels better.

[Gus]

Would I loose sleep over it?? Nope! Some one will alert the proper person to make the proper changes!!

A little story about getting too much change back at the store. Many years ago when 1st married and in the Navy, I went to the corner store for some bread and milk. Being that prices then were lower than now, I handed the clerk a $2 bill. (That was common with military pay.) Then the clerk gave me change for a $20 BILL. I looked at her and asked if this was the correct change. To which she replies, I DON'T MAKE MISTAKES! I said oookay! Left the store. Was I right to keep the extra 18 bucks? Given her attitude, she got a quick lessen that night when she cashed out! But here is the kicker!! Month later I go to the store for same thing and hand her another $2 bill. She looks me right in the eye, but says nothing, but does give me the correct change, plus she puts a paper clip on the bill and tucks it under the tray. She knew it was a mistake but wouldn't admit it.

Gus

[cracker39]

Ira, I use a Sunpass opn the SSP and where I drive the SSP, the booths are manned, so I don't have the chance to try that to see if it works, and don't know if I would take advantage of it if it did work (getting off easy here...no need to decide).

On the one hand, it is not the same as getting too much change back at a store, in that there is not a person in the unmanned booth to be responsible for the lost toll and no one probably even knows that it was lost. Unless they have been taking your picture and will send you a big invite to court that is. And, the only loss the state has, other than the profit from your paying, is your driving on the road, and being one of millions to use it, so your car makes little difference to the overall wear and tear on the road. (I have to agree that the toll roads have been paid for many times over. How many years ago did the SSP start charging and how many years did they say it would take to pay for it? And we're still paying.)

On the other hand, the state is being deprived of your toll money. I think you shold cheerfully refund all the money and let them know that they need to fix the system, and offer them a few of your Buds while you're at it as interest (yeah, right). Seriously, it's your conscience, so let it be your guide.

[Chris C]

"I don't believe in God, Chris" Why doesn't that surprise me?

[slick149]

"I don't believe in God, Chris" Why doesn't that surprise me?

Quite a few people don't. It's not THAT uncommon, at least w/ who I know / hang out with, and the online places I hang out at.

Slick

[IraRat]

"I don't believe in God, Chris" Why doesn't that surprise me?

You started it.

And not to start a fight, but is it mandatory for me to pretend that I believe in God because you do? And do you actually think you have to believe in God to be a good person?

I can show you thousands of examples of people who "believe" in God who sure the heck don't, judging by their actions.

[madjack]

...being good and doing right has nothing to do with anything other than being good and doing right..................
madjack

[s4son]

Religion and politics, two topics sure to provoke a fight.

Ira,
The financial loss due to you not paying tolls is minimal. However, what if you aren’t the only one not paying. Sooner or later they gotta get the money somewhere either through raising taxes or extending the period they collect tolls.

Scott F.

[cracker39]

Religion and politics, two topics sure to provoke a fight.

Ira,
The financial loss due to you not paying tolls is minimal. However, what if you aren’t the only one not paying. Sooner or later they gotta get the money somewhere either through raising taxes or extending the period they collect tolls.

Scott F.

This has nothing to do with Ira's decision or the morality of it. You just hit one of my buttons.

This state (Florida), although I am a native and love it, does continue to charge tolls long after the road is paid for. I don't think once a toll has been levied, they will ever lift it. I haven't seen one lifted yet, and they just keep on adding more toll roads. As for taxes? They're gonna keep raising them regardless. At least, we don't have a state income tax....yet.