Early draft of PD4045 step by step

[springdew]

[*]If no battery, run a wire from the negative bus bar you set up in Step 7 to ( … where? I haven't found this answer yet.)
[*]

This is the question I really need answered. I was not planning to run/use a battery at this time with my PD4045. So for the d/c lights/fan, I will bring all negative to a bus bar, and then where? If I had a battery, I would connect to the Negative post. What about if one is not running a battery?

Sorry to take so long to get back to this. I did get my roof panels in and rough in my electrical wiring, but I still have not connected my PD4045. Haven't even made the box to mount it in yet. So much still to do.

I THINK the answer is this:

"If no battery, run a wire from the negative bus bar you set up in Step 7 to the lug marked in Fig. 2 as BATTERY NEG. -."

I expect that I should take Step 9 and just remove the battery from the equation. Hope that's right.

[springdew]

On figure 3 - Zac's Diagram - there appears to be an additional bus bar at the far right that includes an A/C hot to converter, and an A/C hot from the 2nd breaker (for the converter). My pd4045 has the A/C hot wire crossing from the DC side to the AC side. I was under the impression that this would just be directly connected to the 2nd breaker. The image leads me to believe there is another buss bar in there but perhaps I am seeing it incorrectly. Can you provide clarification?

Thank you

I don't think there's another buss. You do raise a good point -- why have a buss there to the right to handle a single connection to the converter? Could the wire indeed not go straight from the breaker to the converter?

By the way, I noticed the other day that the Precision Dynamics webpage about the PD4000 series had this to say:

Note: As of January 1, 2016, the hot buss in our model PD4045 and PD4060 is no longer supplied by Progressive Dynamics as it is not required for the proper function of the power center. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact our Service Department at 269-781-4242.

Do you figure this is the same buss they are talking about?

[szern]

I know the last post on this thread was quite a while ago, but it has really helped me as I am currently wiring my PD 4045 so thanks to all who have posted their knowledge and opinions of how this should be wired. I called Progressive Dynamics yesterday (1/18/2018) to see what they had to say about the wiring of this unit, specifically the grounding since that seems to be what I am most unsure about. The gentleman spent a good deal of time on the phone with me and explained that there are 4 aspects of the PD 4045 system that need grounded to the metal frame: battery to frame, converter to frame, AC to frame, DC negative bus bar to frame. These are my notes from our conversation. Please forgive me for adding too much detail but I am new at this so every detail was noteworthy to me.

1. Connect Battery negative post to chassis
Use 8 gauge white wire

2. Connect AC breaker panel to chassis
Deep in back of the AC side there is a 3/16 size hole at 10:30 from the large whole that the main shore power comes in through. Run an 8 or 10 gauge green wire (8 may not fit through the hole…) from the AC ground bus through this 3/16 size hole and through the floor of my camper and to the chassis. Use butyl putty or silicone to seal the hole. Make sure the wire surfaces are clean or the putty won’t stick. Don’t have any 9 degree turns in the wire. If you have to do a curve, do a 2-3 inch radius.

3. Connect DC distribution panel to chassis:
Run an 8 gauge white wire from the DC ground return bus bar through the same hole in the floor as in step #2 to the chassis. Mark this wire with colored tape so I know it’s the DC ground return wire.

4. Connect Converter to chassis: Run 8 gauge white wire from the Battery negative lug in the PD 4045 to the chassis. This can run through the same hole as 2 & 3.

The 2 wires running from the PD 4045 and the one from the ground return bus bar can all be ground at the same point on the frame. Sand any paint off the frame to get a good metal to metal connection. Tighten them down with 1 bolt.

He also said I should install a battery cut off switch and an automotive circuit breaker on the 8 gauge wire that runs from the battery positive post to the PD 4045.

I'm not crazy about drilling a hole in the floor of my camper for these 3 wires to run through to my frame (my batter will be in a tongue box so I don't have to run that wire through my camper floor) but my hope is that their tech guys know the safest way to wire these puppies so I think that's what I'm going to do.

[Tom&Shelly]

I know the last post on this thread was quite a while ago, but it has really helped me as I am currently wiring my PD 4045 so thanks to all who have posted their knowledge and opinions of how this should be wired. I called Progressive Dynamics yesterday (1/18/2018) to see what they had to say about the wiring of this unit, specifically the grounding since that seems to be what I am most unsure about. The gentleman spent a good deal of time on the phone with me and explained that there are 4 aspects of the PD 4045 system that need grounded to the metal frame: battery to frame, converter to frame, AC to frame, DC negative bus bar to frame. These are my notes from our conversation. Please forgive me for adding too much detail but I am new at this so every detail was noteworthy to me.

1. Connect Battery negative post to chassis
Use 8 gauge white wire

2. Connect AC breaker panel to chassis
Deep in back of the AC side there is a 3/16 size hole at 10:30 from the large whole that the main shore power comes in through. Run an 8 or 10 gauge green wire (8 may not fit through the hole…) from the AC ground bus through this 3/16 size hole and through the floor of my camper and to the chassis. Use butyl putty or silicone to seal the hole. Make sure the wire surfaces are clean or the putty won’t stick. Don’t have any 9 degree turns in the wire. If you have to do a curve, do a 2-3 inch radius.

3. Connect DC distribution panel to chassis:
Run an 8 gauge white wire from the DC ground return bus bar through the same hole in the floor as in step #2 to the chassis. Mark this wire with colored tape so I know it’s the DC ground return wire.

4. Connect Converter to chassis: Run 8 gauge white wire from the Battery negative lug in the PD 4045 to the chassis. This can run through the same hole as 2 & 3.

The 2 wires running from the PD 4045 and the one from the ground return bus bar can all be ground at the same point on the frame. Sand any paint off the frame to get a good metal to metal connection. Tighten them down with 1 bolt.

He also said I should install a battery cut off switch and an automotive circuit breaker on the 8 gauge wire that runs from the battery positive post to the PD 4045.

I'm not crazy about drilling a hole in the floor of my camper for these 3 wires to run through to my frame (my batter will be in a tongue box so I don't have to run that wire through my camper floor) but my hope is that their tech guys know the safest way to wire these puppies so I think that's what I'm going to do.

As I'm currently designing the electrical system for my teardrop, including a PD4045, szern, thank you for posting these comments. They look good, from my understanding of the PD4045.

I do plan to deviate in two ways. Not recommending these for others, but I think I know what I'm doing . Instead of 8 AWG from the battery, I'm planning on 10 AWG. The smaller wire is easier to work with, and I already have several spools, and, more importantly, I don't plan on large loads on our 12 v side. Also, I'm planning to mock-up the entire wiring system before building it into the trailer so I can check for smoke, warm wires, etc. (I'll report back with results.)

Second deviation is that I don't plan to ground the 12 vdc negative side to the trailer. I'm planning to run 2 wire cable to every 12 v light and outlet, so floating this side shouldn't be a problem. The negative side of each of those cables, the converter, and the battery will all be tied together with a separate bus bar. Grounding the 120 v side, as mentioned in your notes, is very important for safety, as discussed elsewhere on this forum.

I also plan to use 14 AWG speaker wire for most of the DC runs. This seems to have been controversial in some quarters (reading past threads), though I'm not sure why. (Heating the insulation by drawing too much current?) I don't plan on drawing enough current to let the wires get perceptibly hot. Again, I'll test it in the mock-up, with a 12 vdc hair drier as a "worst case" load for the cigarette lighter sockets.

Again, I don't recommend any of my deviations to anyone else, and it sounds like Progressive Dynamics gave you sound advice.

Tom

[szern]

I appreciate the confirmation that this seems correct, Tom, because it seemed strange to me to not "close" the circuit by having a ground return wire running from my DC negative busbar back to the 12 volt battery negative post. I'm new to wiring so I'm trusting the tech people at Progressive Dynamics are giving me correct information but it's nice to hear the same thing from others. I'm finding, with wiring at least, that it's hard to find 2 people to agree on the same thing! I agree with you regarding 8 gauge wire - it's a pain to work with! I'm going to be installing the in-line circuit breaker and battery disconnect switch to the 8 gauge positive wire today and I'm not looking forward to that fight. I will be testing all my wiring before closing up the roof as well since I'm such a newbie at all this wiring.

[Tom&Shelly]

it seemed strange to me to not "close" the circuit by having a ground return wire running from my DC negative busbar back to the 12 volt battery negative post. I'm new to wiring so I'm trusting the tech people at Progressive Dynamics are giving me correct information but it's nice to hear the same thing from others. I'm finding, with wiring at least, that it's hard to find 2 people to agree on the same thing! I agree with you regarding 8 gauge wire - it's a pain to work with! I'm going to be installing the in-line circuit breaker and battery disconnect switch to the 8 gauge positive wire today and I'm not looking forward to that fight. I will be testing all my wiring before closing up the roof as well since I'm such a newbie at all this wiring.

They are having you close the circuit by tieing both the battery negative and negative busbar to the chassis (trailer frame). That should be fine.

Tom

[szern]

Good to know! Thanks Tom!

[onlyridepark]

Thank you springdew for a great writeup on the PD4045. Just got mine yesterday and was looking it over planning out wiring it up.

One thing has me confused. The two separate battery positive lugs with the jumper????? I do plan to run mine with a fuse at the battery and a shut of switch. It doesn't make sense to me why it makes a difference which one I connect to. Or with the switch, am I supposed to be connecting to both lugs with the jumper removed (1 to battery positive/ 1 to switch from battery). I read the instructions as using one or the other. If I am connecting both is it so I am able to charge the battery but still have power through the switch shut off to the trailer?

[Joe4Camping]

Thanks all for this very complete write-up!

One question about this step:

4. Connect Converter to chassis: Run 8 gauge white wire from the Battery negative lug in the PD 4045 to the chassis. This can run through the same hole as 2 & 3.

Shouldn't the white wire be connected to the CONVERTER negative lug, rather than the BATTERY negative lug?? Seems that is the correct connection, if you want to close the circuit on the converter...

[Joe4Camping]

I called Progressive Dynamics, and they confirmed that the Converter IS grounded from the battery GND/WHT lug. So, Tom's chassis grounding info is absolutely correct. This is what happens when I over-think something.