Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

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Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby Capebuild » Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:12 am

I've always planned on having 2 / 100 watt flexible solar panels on the roof. The problem is most 100 watt solar panels seem to have a width of 21.5 inches (just seems to be a common size). The open area between the bezel of my fan and the aluminum molding on the edge of the trailer is 20.5 inches. I found a 100 watt panel Windy Nation makes that is 20.5 inches, so their panel seems like it would fit.... but I know nothing about their panels, quality, function and they seem to not have much press when compared to Renogy. I've looked at LightLeaf panels which seem really great but really expensive. SunFlare's panels are great but no panels near the size I need.

Then I had a thought.... which is the main purpose of this post and discussion. Rather than mount the flexible panel "directly" on the roof's surface, what are your thoughts about slightly elevating the panel enough to get over the top of the fan bezel and possibly over the aluminum edge molding on the corner of the roof? This would allow the use of a 21.5 inch panel (like maybe a Renogy). It would also allow some air flow under the panel. If the bezel on the fan is 1/8" thick say (just taking a guess and estimating) and I attached 5 1/8" aluminum strips, 1 inch wide, running the front to back direction of the roof, adhered to roof surface with VHB tape... bent it to the curve of the roof.... and then adhered the panel to the top surfaces of those aluminum strips. Anyone done anything like that? Or does anyone have any thoughts about this?

Thanks for your thoughts.

John
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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby John61CT » Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:38 pm

The "semiflex" panels last a small fraction lifespan compared to framed rigid.

Yes giving cooler airflow underneath is great, almost mandatory.

The substrate must be 100% rigid, a curve is OK but for longevity, the panel must not be allowed to actually flex once installed

Including due to highway speed winds...
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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby TCJ » Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:40 pm

Since you're the consummate DIYer, you might want to tray and fabricate something like this: https://www.lightleafsolar.com/. As you note, one big advantage of the elevated design is airflow beneath the panel which will keep it cooler and more efficient, and if you're clever it also could allow for detaching so it can be positioned away from the trailer if the trailer is in the shade.
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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby Capebuild » Sun May 01, 2022 6:55 am

Thanks John and TCJ for your thoughts. John, yes... after I had posted my inquiry I realized the elevated "flex" panels lifespan would probably suffer.
I had gotten the idea from looking at the Lightleaf set up... but I realize their backing, being carbon fiber, prevents the damage that would most likely occur elevating a flex panel. Their panels sure are nice. They all curve along the opposite axis for what I'd need.... plus they seem to be quite expensive, about $470 a panel. But if they truly lasted 25 years, they'd probably be worth it.

I did find these two brands (see attached) both having a flexible 100 watt panel that would fit my available space. Anyone know anything about or have any opinions about these panels or about Windy Nation's panels? (if you click on the image it will enlarge and more tech data will appear)

Thanks

John
Attachments
sirius survival panel Medium.jpeg
sirius survival panel Medium.jpeg (66.85 KiB) Viewed 786 times
topsolar Medium.jpeg
topsolar Medium.jpeg (73.08 KiB) Viewed 786 times
windy nation solar panel copy Medium.jpeg
windy nation solar panel copy Medium.jpeg (113.76 KiB) Viewed 786 times
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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby JasenC » Wed May 04, 2022 9:30 pm

I went back and forth on this for awhile. I came to the conclusion of, what if I'm parked in the shade or a bad angle to the sun. I decided to go with the light weight foldable panel kits so I can set up them up where ever I want and carry an extra long lead.
But this also means no charging while on the road, but then again I can set up my truck to charge through the trailer harness.
I'll be done when I'm finished, if that's not fast enough, take a number.

Build Thread https://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=74269
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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby tony.latham » Thu May 05, 2022 10:55 am

The "semiflex" panels last a small fraction lifespan compared to framed rigid.


John61CT:

What's YOUR experience with them and what brand failed? Could you please show us a photo of your camper with the failed panel perhaps?

This claim of yours makes as much sense as saying that all RVs fall apart in three years. There's a gross difference in the quality of flexible panels.

When I give advice, it's based on my personal experience. Otherwise, I include a caveat that I have no personal knowledge about the subject.

Image

My Renogy panel looks and performs just like it did four years ago when it came outta the box. If it were made from PET... it'd probably be near the end of its life span. Just like a Jayco camper.

:thinking:

Tony
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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby tony.latham » Thu May 05, 2022 11:06 am

John:

I think it's theoretically possible to trim the edge of a Renogy panel a 1/4" or so and the same may go for your vent fan.

Image

Now... would I (or NASA's Misson Control) be bold enough to take on this endeavor? I'm not sure. :thinking:

:frightened:

I set my fan an inch off-center for this issue. So far, nobody's asked me why it's not centered. ;)

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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby ChaseAleny » Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:25 am

One important factor to consider when using solar panels is their environmental impact when it comes to disposal. I recently read an informative article on https://spheralsolar.com/solar-panel-recycling/ about the importance of recycling solar panels and how it can help reduce waste and pollution. Thanks for starting this discussion and sharing your thoughts. I hope you find the perfect solar panel for your trailer!
Last edited by ChaseAleny on Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby tony.latham » Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:17 am

One important factor to consider when using solar panels is their environmental impact when it comes to disposal.


So... are you suggesting not going solar?

:thinking: I frankly can't imagine teardropping without a solar system. We'd have to buy a generator for our month-long spring trip.

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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby Tom&Shelly » Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:30 pm

ChaseAleny wrote:One important factor to consider when using solar panels is their environmental impact when it comes to disposal.


I have. There are toxic chemicals in solar panels that, in large amounts, could cause problems.

When you consider industrial capacity solar "farms", vs wind farms, vs coal fired plants, natural gas plants, nuclear plants, etc., each has serious environmental costs that include disposal costs. Is it worth it in order to have and maintain today's society vs a pre-industrial society? Probably--lifespans, quality of life, etc. are all considerably higher than they were, say, 150 years ago. Historically, engineering has always found ways to solve society's technical problems, and there is no particular reason to suppose that won't happen with the relatively newly recognized environmental costs.

The lifecycle costs of any method of producing electricity is important to consider, one reason electric vehicles aren't quite the panacea some seem to think they are. (But I'll shut up about that--several here have made their opinions clear to me, informed or otherwise!)

But here, we're not talking about industrial sized power plants, we're talking about relatively small solar panels to operate a teardrop. A single panel, errantly thrown in a landfill, rather than recycled as e-waste as it should be, honestly isn't going to affect the landfill's environment significantly. All of the solar panels used by all of the RVers in the world are a drop in the bucket compared to industrial sized solar plants tied to the grid. As Tony says, the trade for the individual RVer is whether to use solar panels or burn fossil fuels, which, if nothing else, pollutes the local environment with fumes and noise.

Is camping without electricity an option? Sure, unless you need a CPAP machine. Those folks might stay home and consume electricity from the grid. Hardly an improvement for the environment, and deeply disappointing, I'm sure, for those who enjoy and respect nature. If you do camp without electricity, what about your flashlights? The energy to charge the batteries came from somewhere, and there is a disposal cost to those batteries. Camping with candles is an option, but with the danger of burning down the forest. (And, how much energy did it cost to produce the candle?)

All sorts of trades to consider (and little detailed information to make an informed choice), but truly, using solar panels and, at the end of their life sending them to an e-waste facility, is not a particularly bad option, environmentally.

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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby Tom&Shelly » Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:27 am

In case anyone is interested, here's a discussion (from England) about recycling solar panels. I've been following Robert Murray-Smith for a few months (discovered him while looking for ideas to use the parts from an old microwave oven). He is a chemist and knows what he's talking about. His channel is mostly devoted to ideas for experimenters on energy generation. No mention of the small amounts of toxic chemicals in solar panels, so that may be overstated elsewhere:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI0B3tPk_fY

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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby tony.latham » Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:37 am

...about recycling solar panels.


The guy that brought up this issue may be a troll. He joined and brought up the recycling issue as his first and only post. :thumbdown:

Not what I'd call a teardrop-building contributor.

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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby Tom&Shelly » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:59 pm

My soliloquy probably surprised him. It is something I do think about as an engineer. I noticed he's edited his post with a link, which is a good discussion of the subject of recycling solar panels (and agrees with what Robert Murray-Smith says, btw).

With a lifetime of 25-40 years, any panels I buy will be somebody else's problem (SEP) at the disposal end. The panels' expected end of serviceable life (EOSL), and end of life (EOL), in both cases exceed my own.

I do have a cheap panel that we take camping with us that likely (from reports of others) will lose its efficiency or fail in a few years. I'm eager to tear into it, when the time comes, to see why. I suspect the problem is the plastic covering the actual solar cells.

If I ever get around to putting panels on our off-grid garage, before my EOSL, I'll probably buy refurbished panels which are nearer their 25th year. Much cheaper that way, and good enough for what I want them for.

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Re: Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby Brunn0 » Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:57 am

Flexible solar panels do not last as long as standard solar panels. They are typically guaranteed for 1 to 5 years.
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Elevating Flexible Solar Panels

Postby tony.latham » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:12 am

Brunn0 wrote:Flexible solar panels do not last as long as standard solar panels. They are typically guaranteed for 1 to 5 years.
You can’t throw them all in the same bucket. Most panels made from PET plastic are junk.

Renogy’s ETEF panels have the same guarantee as their glass panels

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