#10 stranded wire and receptacles...

[Chuck Craven]

I believe that you can use stranded THHN under the screw heads, as it has heaver wire strands than the electronic or automotive type of wire. But I would have to look it up in the national electrical codebook. Nominal stranded wire should be in the clamp holes or use a terminal lug. You can use the spade type if the screw will not come out, with out damaging the outlet / switch.

Chuck

[kayakrguy]

The recent notes confirm something I found out when I re-visited my receptacles. First, mine do NOT have springs clamps for back-wiring with solid wire. Instead, there is an INTERNAL clamp that closes when you turn the screw on the side of the outlet (the same screw you would use if you simply wanted to bend a solid wire around it)

Now what is interesting is that the screw does not back out. I am not saying your couldn'd make it back out, but if you did you would also back it out of the internal clamp, which also serves as the nut for the screw. Now you would be....well, you know because the screw would not work unless you could somehow get it back into the internal clamp/nut--as some of you have pointed out.

Which is a long way of saying that a ring connector could not work on one of these. I figured that IF I decided to use stranded wire it would have to be with a spade connector, preferabley locking kind...

Jim

[Nitetimes]

BD, Rich--your notes make me wonder if there are regional variations in the way craftsmen do their work??? Sure seems that way when you read stuff about plumbing/electrical/construction stuff. I mean that while electricians will follow NEC and local codes, HOW they do that may differ from place to place?

Jim

I'd have to agree with you. I've been in different areas and talked to different folks that wouldn't consider doing things the same way I've done them here. It seems that the area of the country and sometimes even the state vary the route to the same end considerably sometimes.
I've noticed this for plumbing, electrical and general construction.

[Leon]

The recent notes confirm something I found out when I re-visited my receptacles. First, mine do NOT have springs clamps for back-wiring with solid wire. Instead, there is an INTERNAL clamp that closes when you turn the screw on the side of the outlet

That is a "back wire" type and stranded can be put into that style clamp area and secured by tightening the screw. That type of termination "cages" the wire and is much different than putting it under a screw head where it would get a twisting motion.

[kayakrguy]

[quote="Leon That is a "back wire" type and stranded can be put into that style clamp area and secured by tightening the screw. That type of termination "cages" the wire and is much different than putting it under a screw head where it would get a twisting motion.[/quote]

I don't want to be picky, but my original inquiry was about # 10 stranded Wire and, simply stated, you couldn't put a # 10 stranded wire in the back wire hole any more than your could stick a....well, you get the drift...

Smaller stranded wire might work...I'd guess 12/14 might go....

Jim

[Chuck Craven]

The recent notes confirm something I found out when I re-visited my receptacles. First, mine do NOT have springs clamps for back-wiring with solid wire. Instead, there is an INTERNAL clamp that closes when you turn the screw on the side of the outlet

That is a "back wire" type and stranded can be put into that style clamp area and secured by tightening the screw. That type of termination "cages" the wire and is much different than putting it under a screw head where it would get a twisting motion.

For in the wall type of electrical connection it has to be soled wire or THHN stranded wire. Single wire THHN comes in both soled and stranded. Both types of wire can be put in the hole on the back of the outlet / switch. The wire gets pressed between two plates of one is connected to the screw something like a square nut. The main use for stranded is it will pull through conduct better than soled. If you decide to use a terminal connector it has to be the insulated type that is rated for a higher voltage than the circuit is. Some of the terminal connectors are rated for automotive use only and you may not see a ratting on the box it comes in. You need to look for rating information before using them.


Chuck

[Alphacarina]

'Solid' Chuck

I don't want to be picky, but my original inquiry was about # 10 stranded Wire and, simply stated, you couldn't put a # 10 stranded wire in the back wire hole any more than your could stick a....well, you get the drift...

I'll bet if you carefully drilled the plastic hole a little larger, you could get a #10 wire in there and the clamp would clamp it tight

You need so little wire in a tear though that you're not exactly saving a ton of money by using the #10 you already have on hand . . . . I would just buy new wire if it was me - You could go with #14 and save a little weight . . . . maybe only a pound or so, but that would be one pound less you would have to tow all across the country for the next umpteen years - At $3 or $4 or $5 a gallon for gas, that would probably (eventually) save you the cost of the wire all by itself

Don

[kayakrguy]

Nitetimes,

Thanks, helps to know that I am not going crazy...hearing voices etc Sometimes regional stuff includes equipment, not just practice.
Hereabouts (South Central Jersey) you see a lot of metal wall plates for switches--something I never, ever saw in NY, PA, MA or Canada...

I was surprised that metal plates would even be allowed in the NEC...

Jim

[kayakrguy]

Folks,

I tried to use #12 solid wire for the connection between the cabin and galley receptacles. I had forgotten how hard it is to bend and otherwise route solid wire, especially in small spaces!!!! Well, they do say that experience is an expensive teacher--i9n this instance lots of wasted time!!

I went to stranded # 12--MUCH easier!! I found lots of leftover #12 black wire, so I taped up one strand with white tape for my neutral and voila, I was good to go...used locking spade connectors...

So you folks were right...no solid wire in a T! <g>

Jim

[Alphacarina]

Technically (legally) individual stranded wires must be run inside something - PVC or metal or armored flexible pipe, so you can't just stick them loose in the wall and panel over them. So long as nobody knows, you can I guess, but it woundn't pass any inspection. The reasoning behind that is that with over the road vibration some chafing is possible and eventually it could wear away the insulation and cause a short or a fire

For wiring inside a wall, I would use solid . . . . and so long as it had a 15 amp (or smaller) breaker, I would use #14 'Romex' wire (a black and white insulated wire plus a bare copper ground wire all encased in one insulated package) You should be able to easily bend the #14 into any configuration you need, if you do it while you're assembling the walls

I wouldn't agree with 'no solid wire in a tear' . . . . unless you're legally running your stranded wires as called for by the NEC codes

Don

[kayakrguy]

Don,

These runs are short, 3ft max, with cable supporters and clamps throughout. There isn't gonna be any movement in the wire...
I always used solid wire in house...who wants to bother with conduit etc?

Jim

[nikwax]

Bd is right...if you don't wire downstream correctly, you can lose the GFCI protection downstream from the GFCI receptacle e.g. keep the black power wire on the brass terminal, the white wire on the steel terminal and green wire on the green screw...if you reverse the black and white or don't connect the green, you don't get GFCI downstream.

The GFCI's I have obviously are NOT intended for # 10 stranded wire.
They only have the screw, no metal clamp so it looks like they are intended for household, solid copper installation--no surprise they are from HD....

Two points I's like to hear about...1) When wiring my house, I always used #12 solid wire and all circuits were 20 AMP (heavy use, like appliances had dedicated circuits--the old Victorian we had originally had two circuits for the whole house--I put 11 in the kitchen?pantry alone!
Anyhow, my electrical inspector said that solid copper was used almost exclusively for residential applications and stranded wire was the norm in commercial wiring--true??

this is true around here, stranded wire is used for commercial applications

2) I have ALWAYS understood that you NEVER connect a smaller wire (say a #12) downstream from a larger, less resistance wire (say a #10) unless the smaller wire is protected by a fuse/circuit breaker. To me that is a no brainer but sometimes what is said on the board makes me wonder if people use that rule???

Basically the circuit breaker/fuse is sized for the wire, as the breaker/fuse is to protect the wire, not the load. The breaker should be sized for the smallest gauge wire in the circuit.

Thanks again, everybody for the help...I am off to get some wire <G>

Jim

more on solid vs. stranded: stranded is always used in automotive applications. I have seen solid wire fail in automotive apps so I would think that stranded is a safer bet for a trailer. As tempting as it is to use Romex in my trailer, I'm going to go with stranded in a plastic conduit. Nothing worse than a wiring fire.

[bobhenry]

Spent 13 hours yesterday wiring all ac and dc circuits as well as hooking up the clearance and tow lights.

I know I'll catch flack from someone but I used a heavy weight ( 12 gage)
3 strand extention cord in orange for all ac runs . All the DC runs were old vacuum cleaner cords I had saved up in grey. The color seperation helped to keep things identified. 3 interior lights AC and DC 2 porch lights AC and DC and 3 AC and 2 DC outlets in the sleepy side. In the galley area an AC / DC dome light under the hatch. GFI protected duplex ac outlet a dc outlet and dome light switching AC & DC. I am sure there are better ways and better materials but these I had on hand and I am about 85% done with my 5 x !0 and have not yet broken the $600.00 barrier.

[asianflava]

I know I'll catch flack from someone but I used a heavy weight ( 12 gage)
3 strand extention cord in orange for all ac runs .

Nawww, that's what I used except mine was red.

[brian_bp]

...Hereabouts (South Central Jersey) you see a lot of metal wall plates for switches--something I never, ever saw in NY, PA, MA or Canada...

I was surprised that metal plates would even be allowed in the NEC...

Do you mean the cover plate over the box, surrounding the switch lever? In what I have seen (in Canada) metal is normal for these things in industrial and outdoor applications, although in interior residential applications metal shows up only as decorative chromed or brass-plated covers. Since the rest of the box is (normally) metallic, I don't see why having the cover which closes the front in metal would be a concern... but then I'm not an electrician and not familiar with the NEC.

Rules do vary by province within Canada, but I doubt there are a lot of significant differences. Imagine the nightmare of supply and cost if devices had to be different by jurisdiction within one country! With identical devices, the rest of the practices should tend to be quite consistent.