12v DC Questions

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12v DC Questions

Postby jc7622 » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:16 pm

Hey guys, this is a cool site with a wealth of information. I'm actually building a toy hauler for hauling dirt bikes to the races and was sent here from another forum. I spent about three hours reading the posts on electrical wiring getting quite an education. I spent another hour or two checking out the cool trailer builds. Awesome site.

If anyone would be kind enough to help me work through some of the electrical planning I would greatly appreciate it. I'm in the process of wiring a box truck which has the front half converted to a living quarters and the back half converted to a garage/work area. I've been trying to educate myself on how the electrical should be laid out and so far think this is the way I plan to do it:

AC - I have a Generac ix2000 generator the I will use for the AC. I plan to do like one of the other posters I saw on here and run power into GFCI pigtail and then into a plug strip with a 15 amp breaker built in. From there AC will go to a 5000 BTU A/C, an undermounted electric pressure washer and a 110v receptical in the garage area.

DC - I plan to have one deep cycle 12v battery or two Trojan T-105's. DC will power four 60w interior lights, 3 55w exterior flood lights, a 13" DC TV/DVD, and an iPod musical device with speakers.

Some of my questions are more specific about how to hook things up, switches, wiring, etc.

1. On the DC side, should I use the simple DC automotive-type toggles to switch lights rather than the switches normally used for AC or does it matter? If its a toggle, does it need to be enclosed in a box like an AC switch or can the connections be just pushed back into the wall cavity?

2. If I use extension cord for the runs do I simply cut the green wire short and disregard it and only use the black and white to go back to positive and ground?

3. Most of my wiring will run under the box. Should I protect the outside wiring in conduit or will the extension cord hold up to the elements?

4. I have a Generac ix2000 generator that I will use to power the AC and to re-charge the batteries. It has a 12v DC recepticle to charge batteries. Do I run wires off the positive and negating terminals of the battery to the DC outlet on the generator? Do I need some kind of a device to make sure that I don't over-charge and damage the battery?

5. On the lights, can I use any light if I put a DC bulb in it? Does it have to be wired with the positive on a certain side?

6. I found two types of bus bars at Academy. One is just a metal bar and the other has a bar for the negative and a bar for the positive with a place for fuses. Which one wold you recommend? (pics below)

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6. Do I need some kind of GFCI protection on the DC between the lights and the battery?

7. On the AC, do I need additional GFCI (for the AC unit, pressure washer) or will the one on the pigtail be enough?

Let me know if you think I'm missing something. Electrical is not my strong suit.
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Postby Shadow Catcher » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:02 am

AC - I have a Generac ix2000 generator the I will use for the AC. I plan to do like one of the other posters I saw on here and run power into GFCI pigtail and then into a plug strip with a 15 amp breaker built in. From there AC will go to a 5000 BTU A/C, an undermounted electric pressure washer and a 110v receptical in the garage area.

DC - I plan to have one deep cycle 12v battery or two Trojan T-105's. DC will power four 60w interior lights, 3 55w exterior flood lights, a 13" DC TV/DVD, and an iPod musical device with speakers.

SC. Conventional filament bulbs are probably not your best answer for lighting. Either consider a CFL or LED lights and they will reduce your demand a great deal. You are also going to need to consider how you feed the battery(s) while the generator has a 12 V output it probably does not put out a great deal of 12 V power and it is unregulated. The care and feeding of a deep cycle battery is a fairly complex subject and you're probably going to want something along the lines of a three stage charger that can be fed from you generator or shore power. We have a Progressive Dynamics load center which also includes fuses and circuit breakers for the AC http://www.progressivedyn.com/all_in_one_pd4000.html
For an understanding of how deep cycle batteries work I strongly recommend http://www.batteryfaq.org/

Some of my questions are more specific about how to hook things up, switches, wiring, etc.

1. On the DC side, should I use the simple DC automotive-type toggles to switch lights rather than the switches normally used for AC or does it matter? If its a toggle, does it need to be enclosed in a box like an AC switch or can the connections be just pushed back into the wall cavity?
SC for the DC circuit's you can get away without using an enclosure but do make sure that you do not have any exposed wires.

2. If I use extension cord for the runs do I simply cut the green wire short and disregard it and only use the black and white to go back to positive and ground?
3. Most of my wiring will run under the box. Should I protect the outside wiring in conduit or will the extension cord hold up to the elements?

SC If you are going to use an extension cord then no you do not need the green wire. However if you are going to string it underneath the trailer it does need to be protected
from the environment and that can be in the form of the split corrugated wire wrap or conduit.

4. I have a Generac ix2000 generator that I will use to power the AC and to re-charge the batteries. It has a 12v DC recepticle to charge batteries. Do I run wires off the positive and negating terminals of the battery to the DC outlet on the generator? Do I need some kind of a device to make sure that I don't over-charge and damage the battery?
SC See above and yes you do need to protect the battery.

5. On the lights, can I use any light if I put a DC bulb in it? Does it have to be wired with the positive on a certain side?
SC if you use tungsten filament bulbs it doesn't matter which way they are connected, my personal feeling is that you'd be money ahead buying inexpensive RV fixtures and wiring on them up properly they are also more adaptable to using LED lights.

6. I found two types of bus bars at Academy. One is just a metal bar and the other has a bar for the negative and a bar for the positive with a place for fuses. Which one wold you recommend? (pics below)
SC as I said I do recommend getting a power center it will simplify your wiring needs and uses ATC automotive fuses which are easier to use and handle if you decide to go with a separate fuse block find one of the ones that uses the automotive type fuses.

6. Do I need some kind of GFCI protection on the DC between the lights and the battery?
SC I don't know that there is a GFCI for DC the principal is different in how they work for AC.

7. On the AC, do I need additional GFCI (for the AC unit, pressure washer) or will the one on the pigtail be enough?
SC as I understand it one GFCI will protect all the outlets on that circuit. If it were me I would be wiring in one of the circuit breakers as a GFCI breaker and looking that up to your power washer etc.
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Postby Dale M. » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:48 am

A few general comments....

Use LEDS for lighting as much as possible, they are rugged and will withstand more abuses during journey...And are low power consumption....

On DC wiring side I would not really use extension cords (but they are cheap)... I would use pain "primary wire" and buy it in bulk rolls....

All inside and outside wiring (if you are putting it inside walls) should probably be in conduit, PVC is great and for mobile applications is rugged and flexible enough to last long time, easy to work with and IF done carefully looks good... Looks cool (industrial theme) and would be my choice....

Try to stay away from auto store parts as they are cheaply constructed and expensive for what you get... Online "electrical suppliers" have better quality and selection (see list of links below)....

All AC wiring probably should be GFI protected... Either with breakers or receptacles ....

The fuse panel and and ground bar you reference to looks adequate but I would opt for something that takes ATO fuses (blade type) and also has ground bar built in.... There are "new" ATO style fuses that have LED indicators built in that actually "light up" when fuse blows (cool for trouble shooting when in hurry) ...

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Here is just some links to get lost in...

http://www.wiringproducts.com/
http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prods.htm
http://www.ledtronics.com/
http://www.hella.co.nz/
http://www.commandelectronics.com/
http://grote.com/
http://www.imperialinc.com/catD.shtml
http://www.trucklite.com/index.html
https://www.delcity.net/
http://www.waytekwire.com/
http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prods.htm
http://www.led.net/datasheets/minbase_i ... _index.htm
http://www.boatersworld.com/product/198 ... use-blocks
http://www.cool-leds.com/
http://www.tessco.com/yts/industry/prod ... wired.html
http://www.pmlights.com/products.cfm

Think creatively.... Something like "backup lights/leds" (with adjustable base) can also be repurposed as lighting and so forth...

Delcity and WayTek have been good places to deal with in past, at least for me.... There are may others out there that are probably just as good...

IF you are not absolutely rushed, have vendor send you paper catalogs....

Dale
Lives his life vicariously through his own self.

Any statement made by me are strictly my own opinion.
You are free to ignore anything I say if you do not agree.

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