This vs This!! Final Draft

[Davagio]

I am getting a frame made for my 5x8 teardrop and i need your input on my two final designs

First one is 2x2 square tube 11Gauge.........184lbs

Second one is 2x2 square tube 3/16.................207lbs

The First one (the 11 gauge) has a cross-member all the way to the back

The Second one (the 3/16) is omitted because of the thicker side walls.

Cost is almost identical and the weight is minimal (+ or - 23 lbs.)

Please give me your opinions

1.

2.

[AlgoDan]

Both designs are plenty strong, I would go with #2 draft with the 11gauge that would be strong enough. You are using square tubing which is best to use in my opinion. But if you feel better with the 3/16th then by all means do it..Good luck and keep us posted.

I am getting a frame made for my 5x8 teardrop and i need your input on my two final designs

First one is 2x2 square tube 11Gauge.........184lbs

Second one is 2x2 square tube 3/16.................207lbs

The First one (the 11 gauge) has a cross-member all the way to the back

The Second one (rhe 3/16) is omitted because of the thicker side walls.

Cost is almost identical and the weight is minimal (+ or - 23 lbs.)

Please give me your opinions

1.

2.

[bobhenry]

By underslinging the center spine you will transfer a great deal of the stress from the right and left front corners and disperse it to the midspan crossmembers. I have modified all my HF frames that way and have a nice little rear hitch reciever for luggage rack or bike carrier
(or another trailer)








Short of that you might concider narrowing the A framed tongue to get some of the flex further back on the side rail of the frame



In my mind this is the best designed frame I have ever seen on this forum it's plano vet's



no fear of tongue failure here

[Davagio]

By underslinging the center spine you will transfer a great deal of the stress from the right and left front corners and disperse it to the midspan crossmembers.

I was thinking of just running it all the way through the middle...Would it be better to go under it?

Also the sides of the frame are a 12' long solid piece bent (kind of like a boat trailer frame). Is that a bad idea?

[KCStudly]

It is better to tie the tongue in underneath, as Bob Henry has shown. The further back the better, but still allowing enough length for turning and backing. The standard 'A' type couplers are based on a 50 deg tongue angle, so factor that in, too.

The centerline rail is unnecessary, unless you are building an extendable tongue (like some off roaders do), or are trying to beef up a heavy trailer on a light frame (like, IIRC, Bob Henry had to do). The rear hitch can be done for accessories with a shorter piece in the back, if desired. (Tandem towing is an uncommon exception. I would support the heavier center rail concept in this case.)

From my build:
64 wide by 9ft 8in long, 2x2x3/16 tube for the tongue and front xmbr, 2x2x1/8 tube for the side rails and rear xmbr, and 1-1/2 x 1/8 angle for the middle xmbrs and cabin mounting tabs.





There is a ton of detailed trailer building info in the beginning of my build thread. Check it out, if you like.

Planovet did a fabulous job (Hall of Fame status) on his Swiss camper, but in my opinion that frame is built a bit heavy, and angle iron is not as stable as tube.

Remember that the strength of the whole camper assembly comes from the whole assembly, not just any one part. Integrate your cabinet design into the structure, tie them into the walls well, tie the walls to the floor well, tie the floor to the trailer well, build a nice tightly fitted "box" that is glued and screwed together thoroughly (the cabin), and the structure will support itself (see Aggie Toms Silver Beatle build for proof).

The heavier you make it the stronger it needs to be to support itself. The lighter it is the lighter it can be and still support itself.

Think airplane, not tank.
That is my advice, unless you plan on dragging it through the boulders on its side .

[Davagio]

It is better to tie the tongue in underneath, as Bob Henry has shown. The further back the better, but still allowing enough length for turning and backing. The standard 'A' type couplers are based on a 50 deg tongue angle, so factor that in, too.

50 degree angle could you maybe explain that a bit more to me? I am relatively new to ALL metal work .

Also i wanted to thank you for your input, and i am definitely going to do some integrating with your design especially the tabs (i would have never thought of that!)

One last question i was looking at your front hitch (in your build you said it was a swivel of some types) is there a way to make it (easily ) detachable on a normal hitch, which basically would make it alot harder to steal in my mind. or do they have a detachable coupler of some types out there already?

[KCStudly]

The industry standard for 'A' type hitches is 50 deg. From the trailer's long axis the tongue members are splayed out 25 degrees on each side of center. So where the jack goes there is a 50 degree spread. Otherwise the standard coupler will not fit properly. If you decide to keep the center tongue member you can use a standard straight coupler, but I think the two member 'A' is better, even though it gives up a little turning radius preventing a full jack knife.

There is nothing easy (nor thrifty) about making your own swivel coupler. Commercially available versions cost 10 times or more than a standard coupler. Unless you are planning an off road TD, and especially if you are green to metal fab, I highly recommend that you stick to the standard ball style coupler. Maybe a HF, NT, TS or used boat trailer would be a better option for a novice. (No offense intended, I think it is safe to say that we all would like to see you succeed.)

Read my thread and all of the chassis building secrets portion of this forum. You need to think about axle placement, tire to frame clearance, wheel hub to wheel hub distance, spring mounting, shackle angles, stabilizer jack mounting, where your floor seams will be so that your trailer xmbrs will support them, safety chain connections, tongue jack mounting, fender mounting, and more.

Please do more research before you commit to spending money on materials. You need to know what you are getting into before you start down this path. Some people make it look easier than it really is.

Don't let me discourage you. It can be done with modest tools and modest means. But you need to be realistic about your abilities and plan for success. Read a bunch of build journals from start to finish. Pay attention to how long it takes for most people to get "campable" (they are never really done); I would estimate that 2 years is pretty typical for the first time builder (I planned for 2 years before starting and am in my second year of building, although I must admit that my design is very complex for a first time builder). Pay attention to the amount of materials needed to complete the whole project; many people underestimate this. Pay attention to the tools and set ups needed to perform each task, then reassess your goals and make sure you can see it through to the end. I am an experienced fabricator and it still takes me longer to do most things than I think it should just because nothing ever goes as easy as you think it should. Even when you think you have what you need, 9 times out of 10 you have overlooked something.

Is your goal to take on a challenging project, or just to go camping quickly for cheap?

Good luck. There are lots of people here that will be more than willing to help you through the process, and all we ask is that you post lots of pics and yell when you need help.

[Davagio]

Is your goal to take on a challenging project, or just to go camping quickly for cheap?

My goal is just to build. I enjoy design and the simplicity of the teardrop. All in all its just a box of wood with slats, on a metal frame going down the road. I guess its a tool to experience what life has to offer and having a place to sleep while doing that. In the simplest form, its a home, a tiny home that no one can take away (unless they steal it of course).

That is why i wanted a detachable coupler or detachable hitch that way nobody could tow it away. I dont know if you remember, but about 15 years back they had a pull-out cassette deck in some cars. The whole entire unit came out (not just the faceplate like the modern version cd players). Thats what i wanted to do to the trailer, making it almost impossible to steal. Kind of like the way you connect the ball hitch to your vehicle. It slides in, you put the cotter pin inside and now you can tow. Remove it and now you have nothing to tow with. That was pretty much was i was asking.

And thank you for your advice once again on some things i should look for while building the frame

[mezmo]

Hi Davagio,

A couple forum members have made their trailer coupler
detachable. I believe one was just a single tube type tongue setup
that slid into another tube under the trailer and was secured
with a pin similar to those used to secure/locate the hitch ball
unit into a receiver on a tow vehicle. The other had a three-part
"A" frame tongue, the normal angled pieces with a center tube
as well, with a removable coupler that slid in and out of the
center tube and was secured similarly. If I knew who/where the
info was, I'd give links, but maybe you could find them using the
new google search feature they just put on the forum.

One thing to be aware of is, that there is a lot of stress where the tongue
joins/crosses under the first crossmember so it is best to have the tongue
members go back at least to the second crossmember. Also, do
not locate the securing pin hole for the removable coupler at that
point (!) [were it joins/crosses under the first crossmember] as that
will irrevocably weaken the tubing and will be a sure set up for the
tongue to fail at that point, unless it is reinforced sufficiently to make
up for the strength/stiffness lost by drilling the securing pin hole
at that point [just save yourself the aggravation and don't position it
there].

One feature that is often found on Australian and New Zealand Caravans
[travel trailers], especially older ones, is an undertrussing on the tongue
members, using a rectangular cross-section flat steel bar for that, always
with a web upright under the point where the tongue joins/crosses under
the first crossmember. [Forum member angib has posted about this also.]
It looks like a very shallow inverted triangle under the tongue members
with web uprights spaced along between it and the tongue members, with the
inverted "peak", and generally the highest/longest upright at the tongue
member and first crossover junction point, with the inverted triangle
decreasing in its height to its end under the trailer. Generally the inverted
triangle would be considered an isosceles triangle since the 'side ' from the
coupler back to the first crossmember has an equal corresponding side
from the first crossmember back under the trailer frame. [Let me now
state I'm not an engineer. This info was gained from reading and observation.]

The kind of "different" coupler you are thinking of is probably a multi-axis type.
Not common here in the US, but much more common in Australia and South
Africa in their off road caravans and campers.

There is at least one US Off Road trailer manufacturer that has them available.
http://www.adventuretrailers.com/coupler.html
Here is another US manufacturer of them:
http://locknroll.com
I just found this one:
http://www.off-roadinternational.com/tough.html

This is an interesting approach, looks to be using an Adventure Trailer's Max Coupler:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/t ... ject/page8
Start of the above project. An Interesting build, featuring what you want:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/t ... ig-Project
[BTW, why not join the expedtion Portal forum too? A lot of interesting info/builds there.]
He also refers to this "Trailer Tech" thread on another forum. he linked, as a good source
of info:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/trailer-tech/

As I said, the Australians have quite a few multi-axis hitches available.
This one seems to be very popular:
http://www.tregtrailers.com.au/poly_blo ... lings.aspx

These are the latest versions of Aussie multi-axis couplers that I've come
across. Both are very interesting. The "OZ Hitch" seems to be the most
user friendly of any that I've come across:
http://ozhitch.com/
This seems very well engineered:
http://mchitch.com.au/
Neither are inexpensive, but if it's worth it to one's self, they seem to give good
value and quality for the money. Even some of the less expensive [a very
relative term] ones do seem to be a good idea to me as they have an extra built
in safety factor in the multiple axis rotation they provide.

Just some info I thought you may be interested in, from what you posted,
even if only for curiosity's sake...

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo

[Davagio]

Hi Davagio,

A couple forum members have made their trailer coupler detachable. I believe one was just a single tube type tongue setup that slid into another tube under the trailer and was secured
with a pin similar to those used to secure/locate the hitch ball unit into a receiver on a tow vehicle. The other had a three-part "A" frame tongue, the normal angled pieces with a center tube
as well, with a removable coupler that slid in and out of the center tube and was secured similarly. If I knew who/where the info was, I'd give links, but maybe you could find them using the
new google search feature they just put on the forum.

Norm/mezmo

Hey thank you for all your information, i really do appreciate you taking the time sending me all those links! that will definitely give me some ideas.
The A-Frame style hitch seems the most logical to me after going through some of those. Basically i just thought about using 2x2x11g all around (including the a-frame part) but making the center tube extend 6 inches beyond that a-frame using 2.5 x 2.5 x1/4....and then inserting the 2 x 2 x1/4 into that tube using a sleeve. Much like you mentioned above. Then drilling the pin after the A-Frame part (basically about 4 inches in from the front). That way the tongue will only be about 3' at its shortest length, and i could extend it up to about 6' while im backing.

Plus i could just remove the hitch itself and throw it in the car that way you wouldnt have to worry much about someone stealing it! if they did try to steal it it would be a train wreck for them, and i would love to watch that all unfold with a big bucket of popcorn after they realized it didnt have a hitch at all