another tongue extension question.

[goldcoop]

Not if the trailer is turned 90 degrees to the tow vehicle, the body can still hit as the arc the trailer travels in is still the same as it was with the shorter drawbar, make sense?

Steve F-

No not yet?

The pivot point for turning would be pushed 14" or so back.

So in my mind if the trailer hit before at 90 degrees, it would have to arc MORE than 90 degrees before hitting?

Cheers,

Coop

[bobhenry]

Yeah but it still hits . Cracked the hell out of Chubby's lexan top 6 weeks ago because of just this fact. Was backing him down the drive and not paying enough attention my pickup has a utility bed on it and the corners met.

He will have a longer tongue next summer.

[Benthosboy]

Yeah but it still hits . Cracked the hell out of Chubby's lexan top 6 weeks ago because of just this fact. Was backing him down the drive and not paying enough attention my pickup has a utility bed on it and the corners met.

He will have a longer tongue next summer.

But at what point do you stop and who/what is to blame? Is the "driver" at fault for not being able to reverse an articulated outfit or is it the trailers' fault for having too short a tongue?

There are hordes of external factors that you can blame but you can either reverse or you can't. It really is that simple. If you can't reverse, a longer tongue merely delays the inevitable. This is not a personal attack on anyone in particular, it's more of a grievance I have with the "powers that be" who think it acceptable that people are let loose doing things that they don't know how to! I don't know what the regulations are in the UA of S but over here, the licensing laws are ridiculous. My boss' son has just passed his car test. As such, he's restricted to 3500 kg's max weight pulling a trailer no greater than 750 kg's. What that means is that he can't legally drive my boss' 24 foot campervan, which is 3850 kg's gross but he can, incredibly enough, drive my 21 foot camper at 3500 gross pulling his Laser dinghy behind it giving him in the region of 40 foot in length! If anyone can tell me the sense in that, send me a postcard...

Martyn. (now dismounting the soapbox to put the kettle on )

[bobhenry]

Yeah but it still hits . Cracked the hell out of Chubby's lexan top 6 weeks ago because of just this fact. Was backing him down the drive and not paying enough attention my pickup has a utility bed on it and the corners met.

He will have a longer tongue next summer.

"But at what point do you stop and who/what is to blame? "

It was the folks in St.Louis that night ! Budweiser

Ira would have been proud ! However it was dark and I couldn't see it in my mirrors. Excuses excuses .......

Seriously too short of a tongue will make the best trailer operator look like an idiot (wazzock for those of you over the pond). There are some trailer tow vehicle combinations that are absolutely impossible to back up. I was a 4 year wrecker driver and would routinely back the car being towed directly into a single bay door and placed it directly over the lift before unhooking. I worked with U-haul for 5 years and moved hundreds of boxed truck trailer combos into display position. Yet I found it impossible to back up Eggbert my 40x48 HF trailer before I added almost 18" in tongue length by installing a 2x2x1/8 square tube replacement tongue. Chubby is difficult but more managable but you better be paying attention. ( and preferably in day light hours)There are certain geometric rules that need to be addressed and some time experemtation is necessary. I have found that the tow vehicle has more impact on the backing function than the trailer. Short wheelbase and quick steering can be a big help ( or a hinderance ) Had I put the trailer in the garage with the Scion this accident would not have happened. So is it the driver ? the trailer? or the tow vehicle? You tell me!

[Jim540]

The longer the distance from the hitch point ( hitch ball, king pin or pentel ) from the center of the trailer axle or axles the easier the trailer will be to back up. The longer the distance is the slower the reactions will be on the trailer from driver input. A short coupled trailer reacts quickly and a long coupled trailer reacts slower.

Jim

[bobhenry]

The longer the distance from the hitch point ( hitch ball, king pin or pentel ) from the center of the trailer axle or axles the easier the trailer will be to back up. The longer the distance is the slower the reactions will be on the trailer from driver input. A short coupled trailer reacts quickly and a long coupled trailer reacts slower.

Jim

So extending the ball out 18" will do absolutely nothing for the backing caracteristics of a short coupled trailer.

So don't extend your balls , lengthen your tongue for a better response. Opps I mean slower response my mind was elsewhere for a sec.

[brian_bp]

Extending the drawbar and extending the tongue can look like the same thing, as long as the rig is in a straight line.

Ways they are different:

- yes, extending the drawbar will give some more room, so that if the original design hit at some angle less than 90 degrees, it will now hit at a more acute angle, but...

- for a straight tongue to allow a 90 degree turn, it must be long enough to place the trailer body beyond the side of the tug; with a wider tug, the tongue is the part which needs to be extended, because it is the part turned at right angle to the tug

- the vertical load (weight) is carried at the ball; extending the tongue reduces that load and keeps it applied in the same place, while extending the drawbar keeps the load the same, and applies it further back, where it has more adverse effect on the tow vehicle

- extending the drawbar exaggerates the adverse effects of the ball moving side-to-side with steering movement; extending the tongue minimizes that effect

[brian_bp]

Any rig with trailer can be jammed into a jacknife in reverse if the driver goes too far... a larger angle can be allowed with a long and narrow tongue, but there's always a limit, so I agree the driver has to take responsibility for learning to back up.

While moving forward, on the other hand, there is a maximum angle reached dependent on the turning radius of the tug, the distance from the tug's rear axle to the ball, and the distance from ball to trailer axle. With a straight tongue long enough to let the trailer body clear the tug bumper, the angle can get to about 90 degrees without interference, and the tug can probably turn any possible radius allowed by its steering in forward motion without ever hitting the trailer. That would be nice; the annoyingly mounted propane tank bracket on my travel trailer can hit the bumper of my van in tight U-turns, even though the van is not turning as tightly as it could - that's an unnecessary limitation.