HARBOR FREIGHT TIRE WARRANTY

[Nitetimes]

If you put on your bifocals and get a magnifying glass it's on the side wall. "Max 60 psi cold."

I think you've got your ammo right there... does it state a minimum tire pressure??? Max 60 psi cold would translate to no more than 60 psi when the tire is cold, if there is no minimum stated I would say it's their bad.

Okay, so if the tire says nothing about pressure except the maximum, and I put in on my trailer and run it at zero pressure, should I be able to blame the tire manufacturer when it disintegrates? Doesn't the user of a product have some responsibility to learn how to use it properly? Does every bit of the information needed to operate a product need to be carved into the side of it?

Sorry but that statement is just plain stupid for a lack of a better word. No one said anything about running it with no air. But tires do not have to be run at their max pressure. I have run trucks for a lot of years and rarely run the max unless I have a load on, never had any problems with the tires because of it. If there is a minimum required pressure then it most certainly should be printed on there as well as the max.
If you run those skinny little tires at their max pressure they are hard as a rock and will literally tear a small trailer apart unless it's loaded to capacity all the time.
What it tells me is that it was a bad tire and they are trying to blame it on the tire pressure not being maxed out, nothing more.

[eamarquardt]

I just happen to have the front tires off my van (turning front rotors to get rid of brake shimmy) so it was easier to look for the fine print. They have a warning about underinflation and refer you to the car's owner's manual. Did the trailer/tires come with instructions that were ignored or is the mfgr's documentation less than wonderful (as is the case with a lot of the imported stuff today). I think it is reasonable for people used to inflating their car tires to 30 psi or so to do the same on trailer tires unless the "instructions" notify them otherwise. I have a problem, in today's environment, with all of the "absolutely stupid" warnings that come with some items (do not use this 120 volt, uninsulated electrical device underwater while bathing, for example) but don't come with some reasonable guidelines for use.

This "the world according to Gus".

Cheers,

Gus

[brian_bp]

...I think it is reasonable for people used to inflating their car tires to 30 psi or so to do the same on trailer tires unless the "instructions" notify them otherwise...

I can understand this viewpoint, but I disagree. A high-pressure bicycle tire is horribly underinflated at 30 psi... does that mean they need a warning on them? If a cyclist buys his first car, should he inflate the tires to 80 psi without reading the sidewall, because doing what you're used to - but in a different situation - is presumed to be okay?

I'm having a little trouble understanding how this works: if the user doesn't read the sidewall, they won't see any warning or instruction printed there. Should there be a test before you can take delivery from Harbor Freight? I downloaded the manual for a random Harbor Freight trailer from their website (90153- 1075 LB. CAPACITY 40-1/2" x 48" UTILITY TRAILER WITH 12" FOUR-LUG WHEELS AND TIRES); it has a five-page section on the tires, explicitly including the pressure requirement.

If they do read the sidewall, and are operating with a background of car tire experience, wouldn't they notice the 60 psi max inflation pressure, and wouldn't it be reasonable to expect them to say to themselves, "hey, that's not like the tires I'm used to; maybe I shouldn't assume they work the same way"?

Are we looking for bit of text which reads "THIS IS NOT A CAR TIRE; IT NEEDS DIFFERENT INFLATION PRESSURE", like those irritating labels on the driver's sunvisors of SUVs which say "THIS IS NOT A PASSENGER VEHICLE AND BEHAVES DIFFERENTLY"? Those save a lot of lives, don't they?


This thread started with a tire failure due to a common mistake of underinflating the trailer's tires. That's entirely understandable; I've done far dumber things myself. What I don't understand is the idea that it should be blamed on someone - anyone - else.

[eamarquardt]

Hi,

I went out and looked at my bicycle tire. It says "inflate to 40psi". Apparently all bicycle tires are not created equally. My point is that there should be reasonable instructions included with everything you purchase and when possible (as is it is entirely possible on tires) the instructions should be marked on the object when it is an important operating parameter. I'd rather see fewer of the inane comments one now sees quite regularly on products for some more important "technical requirements". I often "magic marker" important notes on things that I've serviced, or torque specs, additional timing marks on pulleys, etc so the information is right where I need it the next time I need to know it.

There you have it, "the world according to Gus". These are the opinions of the "author" and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Management (Suzy).

Cheers,

Gus

[brian_bp]

If you put on your bifocals and get a magnifying glass it's on the side wall. "Max 60 psi cold."

I think you've got your ammo right there... does it state a minimum tire pressure??? Max 60 psi cold would translate to no more than 60 psi when the tire is cold, if there is no minimum stated I would say it's their bad.

Okay, so if the tire says nothing about pressure except the maximum, and I put in on my trailer and run it at zero pressure, should I be able to blame the tire manufacturer when it disintegrates? Doesn't the user of a product have some responsibility to learn how to use it properly? Does every bit of the information needed to operate a product need to be carved into the side of it?

Sorry but that statement is just plain stupid for a lack of a better word. No one said anything about running it with no air. But tires do not have to be run at their max pressure. I have run trucks for a lot of years and rarely run the max unless I have a load on, never had any problems with the tires because of it. If there is a minimum required pressure then it most certainly should be printed on there as well as the max.
If you run those skinny little tires at their max pressure they are hard as a rock and will literally tear a small trailer apart unless it's loaded to capacity all the time.
What it tells me is that it was a bad tire and they are trying to blame it on the tire pressure not being maxed out, nothing more.

I respect the opinion that a lower pressure may be appropriate - although respect doesn't seem to be a requirement here - and I even agree with it.

The point is that there is no single minimum pressure value; that's why I used the example of zero. Any number - other than the tire's maximum - is too low for some weight of trailer. If the tire is carrying nothing but an empty trailer frame, I might guess that it could safely run at 15 PSI; the ST load/inflation tables as published by Goodyear go down that far. Is that what should be printed? To know what "minimum" to mark on the tire, the manufacturer would need to know how heavy the trailer is... and I doubt their crystal ball is shiny enough to show that. Only the user knows the load, and is responsible for picking the corresponding pressure.

The information needed to choose a lower-than-maximum inflation pressure is in the load/inflation tables. Should that be reproduced on the side of the tire?

[brian_bp]

I went out and looked at my bicycle tire. It says "inflate to 40psi". Apparently all bicycle tires are not created equally.

Exactly my point - bicycle tires come in many types, including that relatively big and soft 40 psi version. So why would anyone assume that they can all be used at the same pressure, or that trailer tires should use the same pressure as car and truck tires? Even pickup truck tires often need far more than 35 PSI.

My point is that there should be reasonable instructions included with everything you purchase and when possible (as is it is entirely possible on tires) the instructions should be marked on the object when it is an important operating parameter. ..

See my previous note about the trailer manual... and there is a pressure marked right on the tires; it is 60 psi.

There is a lot to be said for putting specs right on some things, such as the maximum inside diameter marking cast right into a brake drum. On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to me to attempt to print the whole manual section for changing shoes on that brake drum.

[brian_bp]

I agree and I accept the responsibility for ruining the tire because...

... you apparently made an error, like we all do. Heck, maybe 28 PSI is enough, and that low pressure wasn't even an error, by sheer luck, and the tire was actually faulty. As I mentioned before, I've done far worse.

I'm sorry if my comments seem harsh; my concern is not anything to do with this specific tire failure, but rather the idea in some posts that someone else is always responsible. Sometimes we are.

[eamarquardt]

I've run out of comments to fan the fire.

Cheers,

Gus

[Kevin A]

http://www.tireabuse.com/download/Tire_ ... alysis.pdf

[Creamcracker]

The manual/instructions that came with my HF trailer says:
"REQUIRED TIRE AIR PRESSURE - 60PSI"

not "minimum' or "maximum" but "required"

[bobhenry]

My previous post was to warn anyone with a smaller tire equipped trailer to check the pressure. Chubby weigh 950 +/- that means each tire is seeing less than 500 # on level ground. Should a tire rated at 60 lbs explode at 49 ? If you need warranty help be sure that you at least report the correct inflation pressure! I was a 10 year mechanic and owned my own auto repair shop I am not totally devoid of knowledge of any and all things automotive related. I understand tires perform best at or very near their recommended inflation. I had to air the tire before departure to the January Shivaree ( about a 120 mile trip each way) I had to air it up before departure from camp so at this time I knew I was running with a tire problem but at 15 below I would have drug it home on the rim before I changed it and at 3 am there were few places to repair it. I had a self contained compressor and it never ran below 30# because I stopped and checked every hour and brought it up to 40#. Was the leak due to the ply seperation ? Was the ply seperation due to the leak ? When I change it will I find I have acquired some foreign scrap metal?
Tune in tomorrow for the next episode of as Teardrops fall!

[Alphacarina]

You need to carefully determine the proper inflation for the load and the abuse the tire will see in it's normal service

I imagine that at 500 pounds, your 4.80 X 8's are pretty near their rated load limit - You did buy the 1100 pound HF trailer didn't you? That's 550 per side

The 5.30 X 12's that came on my 1740 HF trailer are rated at 1,000 pounds per tire, but that's with them inflated to 80 PSI and as it plainly states on the wheel, limited to 55 MPH

Small trailer tires have very little excess capacity and to be safe, they should all carry as much air as they are rated for. While a car tire may say it has a max pressure of 44 PSI and the car manufacturer may say to inflate them to 26 PSI, they still are rated at well more than 25% of the rated capacity of the vehicle . . . . and they have reserves that small trailer tires don't

I'm like you - I don't care for rock hard tires on anything, so my HF trailer has 205/55-15's on it (not much bigger around than the 5.30-12's actually) and I can safely run those at 25 pounds and 80 MPH if I like, because they can safely carry the 500 pounds or so I have on them with much less pressure in them than the small trailer tires

BTW - I really appreciated the fact that you owned up to your responsibility about your tire failure. I would venture to guess that most tire failures are due to underinflation and those folks who scream the loudest about the manufacturers 'responsibilities' are usually the same ones who have never owned a tire pressure gauge in their lives

Don

[bobhenry]

You need to carefully determine the proper inflation for the load and the abuse the tire will see in it's normal service

I imagine that at 500 pounds, your 4.80 X 8's are pretty near their rated load limit - You did buy the 1100 pound HF trailer didn't you? That's 550 per side

The 5.30 X 12's that came on my 1740 HF trailer are rated at 1,000 pounds per tire, but that's with them inflated to 80 PSI and as it plainly states on the wheel, limited to 55 MPH

Small trailer tires have very little excess capacity and to be safe, they should all carry as much air as they are rated for. While a car tire may say it has a max pressure of 44 PSI and the car manufacturer may say to inflate them to 26 PSI, they still are rated at well more than 25% of the rated capacity of the vehicle . . . . and they have reserves that small trailer tires don't

I'm like you - I don't care for rock hard tires on anything, so my HF trailer has 205/55-15's on it (not much bigger around than the 5.30-12's actually) and I can safely run those at 25 pounds and 80 MPH if I like, because they can safely carry the 500 pounds or so I have on them with much less pressure in them than the small trailer tires

BTW - I really appreciated the fact that you owned up to your responsibility about your tire failure. I would venture to guess that most tire failures are due to underinflation and those folks who scream the loudest about the manufacturers 'responsibilities' are usually the same ones who have never owned a tire pressure gauge in their lives

Don

[brian_bp]

My previous post was to warn anyone with a smaller tire equipped trailer to check the pressure. Chubby weigh 950 +/- that means each tire is seeing less than 500 # on level ground. Should a tire rated at 60 lbs explode at 49 ?

Ah, real numbers...

I don't have a load/inflation chart available for 4.80-12 tires built to an unknown standard (are they ST? commercial?); however, in the ST tables as published by Goodyear, tires with maximum inflation pressure of 50 PSI running at half that pressure (25 PSI) have about 2/3 of their full capacity at half pressure. Similarly, while the chart doesn't have any tires with a max pressure of 60 PSI, the ones with higher maximums have - again - 2/3 as much capacity at 30 PSI as they do at 60 PSI.

Apply that to the 4.80-12 tires with 780 lb capacity at 60 PSI, and we get 520 lb per tire at 30 PSI. Pretty close to the edge for the quoted trailer weight, assuming that it is evenly loaded side-to-side, and based on only and estimate of the load response to pressure. I don't know about teardrops, but travel trailers are rarely even side-to-side due to the placement of equipment and cargo in them.

Should a tire rated at 60 lbs explode at 49 ?

Not likely, given the load and capacity information; however, I thought that this tire was run as low as 30 psi, and never as high as 49 psi.

If you need warranty help be sure that you at least report the correct inflation pressure!

Please forgive me if I'm misreading this, but I think it says that when claiming compensation for a failure which you want to blame on the manufacturer, even if it may be your own fault, you should lie about the operating conditions under which the product failed.

I'd like to say I've always been above doing this, but I have not. On the occasion that I did, it certainly wasn't my proudest moment.

[madprinter]

This debate really brings back some memories for me.
My dad was a real no BS kind of guy. He had a new set of tires on his car for about two months when one of the tires blew out.
He went back to the tire dealer for an exchange, and this is what he was told. " Sorry we don't warranty tire that have been drove flat"
My dad said yes I drove it flat, all the way to the side of the road after it blew out. They did'nt want to replace the tire.
So this is what he did.
We lived on a busy street. He nailed the tire to a tree by the road with a large sign stateing. " This is one of Joe Browns Tire center tires with two months wear and acording to him its not warrantied"
The tire center was ready to give him a new tire at this point.
He did'nt bend that easily tho, he left it up there a few more weeks.
Hope things go your way. Maybe you could suggest they read our postings.
William