Trailer addition for travel with 2 scooters

[lcurrie]

Ever since I've started my Cubby build, i've pondered over the best way to pull my Cubby and my 2 scooters at the same time.

I have an idea for a trailer and wonder if it is possible/reasonable or just plain crazy.



I'm bulding the Cubby on a standard Harbor Freight folding trailer (the one with the higher weight rating). That fancy SketchUp model above is not to scale, but i think y'all get the idea.

In the back half, I would have a welder add two receivers for posts that could slide in just like trailer hitches work. I'd also have said welder build me the platform for the scoots. Of course, I'd have ramps to get them up there. When I arrive at my destination, I'd remove the scoots and slide the platform off the Cubby so I have access to the galley.

My questions are:

Is this a reasonable enough thing to do?
How would i need to move my axlel to make this work?
If I move my axle, could i still pull the Cubby without the scoots on board or does that make the weight to wonky.

What do you guys think?

[George Kraus]

Lynn

How about one on the front and one on the rear, that way if you don't have the scooters the weight distribution without them wouldn't be a lot closer to normal. How to accomplish it would be a good Andrew question.

George

[sdtripper2]

Lynn:

Seems like it would be good to know some more data:
Andrew, Mike, Jack and others may have more precise thoughts but here are some thoughts I have.

Some considerations about weight:
1) What is your Tow rig & what is the max it can pull?
1a) What is the Gross & tongue weight you are looking for or is acceptable?
2) What is the Weight of the two scooters, that may effect your weight formula enough to
cause tow issues unless you set axle back to accommodate this weight?
2a) The balance of your trailer may be effected. Read here Andrews formula:

[madjack]

Lynn, without my knowing what your tow vehicle is, I will haveta make a couple of assumptions...with the two scoots on the back, the axle would haveta be moved back for proper balance...if your TV can handle the tounge weight, moving the axle back and NOT carrying the scoots really shouldn't matter a lot except for maybe emergency braking on very wet or icy roads and I do say MAYBE and EMERGENCY. Georges idea, of extending the tongue and mounting one in front and one on the rear, may be a better way to go...keep in mind that what your are suggestiong will be using the same trailer for two different setups...with proper thought and setup, it cna be done....
madjack

[Miriam C.]

One thing to keep in mind if you make it for front and back with the back platform removeable---the tongue will be heavier when the back platform is gone.

[lcurrie]

Wow. Thanks for all the info.

Uhhhh. wow. those questions are for greater minds than mine.
Based on a quick web search and a little simple math, i'd say the combined weight of the scooters is under 500 lbs.

Tow vehicle currently is a V6 Toyota 4Runner but that will probably have to be replaced before the Cubby's life span is up. We will buy another SUV type vehicle which won't have less than a V6 unless some amazing hybrids come out.

Uhhh. Gross and tongue weight. No clue. I guess figure 1000 - 1200 lbs for the loaded Cubby and 500 for the scoots so 1500-1700 max? We travel light - cubby with little to no water, a few light weight clothes (this IS Texas) and a 30 lb. slightly stinky dog.

I've considered the one in front and one in back and can't figure out if the front is doable but I guess there's no reason why it wouldn't work. That definately sounds like the simplist option. In the spirit of KISS, my checkbook, and my sanity, it's probably the way i should go.



Thanks for helping me think this one through!

[madjack]

Lynn, if you add a receiver hitch to the rear, you will have to add another cross member, about a foot from the rear, to attach the front of the receiver to, so that you wont be trying to twist the receiver or rear cross member(did that make sense???)...streching the tongue, to allow mounting, a scooter in the front, shouldn't be a big deal but all these things will require some welding(preferably) and should be done before the body is built.......
madjack

[madjack]

Lynn, another thought is that you never want to max out your trailer rating...a 30% or so cushion is nice to aim for...with the 1700# trailer you will want to stay at around 1200#s...your Cubby should weigh in around 800#s so plan accordingly...you can max out safely, on occasion but for a static load, try to stay in or under the 1200# range....
madjack

[sdtripper2]

Lynn:

You didn't specify a year of your 4Runner.
So wasn't able to narrow down the exact tow weight specifications.
Your Towing Capacity most likely will be close to 5,000 lb for the V6.
The tongue weight will also be listed in your owners manual.
More than likely you have enough beast to pull the trailer and scooters
with ease. Maybe even having the split front back scooter arrangement and
still have a good tongue weight balance. Start with the owners manual and
figure the balance from there.

And yes ... Jack has a point of not over loading the capacity of the trailer you
choose with build and scooter weight. His 30% of spare, seems prudent.

[lcurrie]

Madjack - I understand about adding another cross member to the back but don't understand what you mean by "so that you wont be trying to twist the receiver or rear cross member."

I agree with the max load on the trailer. That's something I'll need to be extrememly careful about.

Steve - my 4Runner is a 1996. It has a 5000 lb tow weight capacity.

[angib]

Incidentally, what sort of scooters are you talking about? I've learnt that word can mean a coupla hundred different things in America - anything from a Hardley Ableson to something you stand on and push with one foot.....

So, option 1 is two scooters behind the body. I've assumed:
- the trailer weighs 1200lb;
- the scooters weigh 500lb;
- the platform carrying the scooters weighs 50lb; and
- the platform is 36" front-to-back, so the scooters are centred at 18" behind the body.

To get at least 10% of the trailer weight on the hitch requires the axle to be 15" from the back of the body - that's over 24" rearward of where it normally is!! Someone with a HF trailer might like to check that the axle can be moved this far back without its mount extending past the back of the trailer. This 'base' hitch weight is 177lb.

If you now take off the scooters and the platform (the condition that you'd tow the trailer without the scooters), the hitch weight goes to 27% of the new weight, 326lb (or 25%/312lb with the scooter platform still in place). I find this surprisingly reasonable and I think your 4Runner will be able to put up with that sort of hitch weight (its hitch weight limit is probably 500lb, 10% of its towing capacity).

I think the HF trailer has, just, sufficient strength in its tongue to allow it to be towed with such a heavy hitch weight - luckily it is designed to be abused!

It's likely that this arrangement won't tow very well - with all that weight out the back, it's likely to sway even with 10% hitch weight. However it's still a small percentage of your 4Runner's capacity, so it will probably be all right.

Please note that the 18" measurement to the centre of the scooters is important - if it went up to 24", the hitch weight with the scooters drops to 8%/150lb.

I would want the two receiver tubes as near the outside edge of the trailer frame as possible - that's where the load of the scooter wheels will come and that's where the strength of the trailer is. Moving the tubes inwards weakens both the trailer and platform.

Ideally, I would put the receiver tubes right under the HF frame rails, but that's probably not possible because the springs will be mounted there, now that the axle has been moved back. You will need to do some checking that the receiver tubes can pass over the axle at full bounce (lowering this trailer won't be possible) as ideally those tubes want to stretch forward to the next frame, as Jack said.

Option 2, to carry one scooter forward and one behind, is much nicer as it doesn't alter the weight balance much. However it does double the fabrication work as you would certainly need a new A-frame tongue long enough to take the front scooter, and the single-scooter platform at the back won't be a lot less work than a double-scooter platform. I would still prefer this solution, as you can be sure it would work well - there is no need to use "probably" when describing it!

Andrew

[lcurrie]

Another thought. What if i add an axle with wheels on the scooter platform so it is more like it's being towed as opposed to having weight on the end.

One, is this even legal?
Two, does the engineering work?

[madjack]

Another thought. What if i add an axle with wheels on the scooter platform so it is more like it's being towed as opposed to having weight on the end.

One, is this even legal?
Two, does the engineering work?

Lynn, there is a company that makes the exact thingy(tech term) that you are descibing...I did havea link but can't find it amongst the buches of extraneous links I have...I got the link from a posting on the board but don' remember who at present (CRS ya know)...

I still think the bestway is to extend the tongue and put one front and one back as this will have teh least effect on trailer balance whether the scooters are loaded on not.

...the "twisting" I was referring to has to do with the receiver tube being mounted on only one crossmember, thus it is trying to either twist itself off or twist the crossmember, thus an additional crossmember eliminates this twisting force....
madjack

[lcurrie]

Ahhh. i get what you're saying about twisting now.

If you find that link, let me know. i'll check it out.

I tend to suffer from overplanning things like this. For me, that's the best part of a project!

In this case i need to weigh what works, against what can easily be done. I don't weld so I'm going to have to rely on someone else for that. I also want to be sure to plan correctly so i can travel with or without the scooters. Sometimes i think the simples option would be to invest in an old, small pickup truck and put them in the bed for traveling.

Then i'd have to figure out where to park said truck though.



Then, to top it all off, I'm a bit intimidated by the weight distribution issues. I'd have to rely heavily on the folks on the board for that.

Thanks for all your thoughts,

[madjack]

there is no need to use "probably" when describing it!

Andrew

Andrew...probably = disclaimer...I don't want to get sued so instead of saying it will work, I say it probably will work..
madjack