Spring Conversion Question...

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

I was hoping to find a diagram showing the correct mounting setup for a double eye leaf...
I've talked with Rich some today and he helped me figure out why I was getting toe out on my tires, with the existing single eye leaf (Splipper) setup. It was because the axle was not setting square in the spring in relationship to the frame... it was tipped backwards a bit and the built in camber (Bow in the axle) was showing up as toe out.
Told me I could grind the axle seats to correct the problem, but I'm not keeping the slipper springs... I'm converting to double eyed springs with rear shackles.
Here's my concern/question...
The holes on the existing front mount that was used with the slipper spring are centered 2" below the frame rail and I'm hoping to reuse these mounts so that I don't have to cut, grind off and loose my mark. Doug gave me the double eyed leafs (Thanks Again Doug) and I bought the rear mounts and shackles from a local RV place. They sold me the shortest shackles they had... The holes on the rear mounts are centered 1" below the frame rail. The shackles are #11's and the holes are centered about 2 1/4" appart.
When I tilt the shackle to the angle it needs to be and hold it up to the rear mount, it appears that the eye of the spring in going to be about 3" below the frame rail. That's gonna tip the axle backwards once again and give me toe out.
Do they make shorter shackles than #11's???
Get new front mounts that have holes centered at 3" below the frame rail when mounted so both eyes of the spring are at the same elevation?
Or just grind the axle seats to make the axles set square with the camber pointing straight up???
BTW Rich, if you see this post... It took me a half hour just to figure out why the holes on the rear mounts were offset.... Good head scratchin' day.
Hope this all makes sense... If I go ahead and mount everything right now, the rear eye is gonna set about an inch lower than the front eye.
The only other way I see to raise the rear eye, is to go with an exagerated or flater angle with the shackle and I've been told not to move it that far...
I never woulda drempt that something that looked so simple could be this complicated.
On one hand, it would've been nice to have bought a complete kit, but getting free springs from Doug was really cool.

[Kevin A]

Dean, what happens if you turn the axle around?

[Micro469]

I'm gonna need a picture to figure out what yer talkin about.........

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

Dean, what happens if you turn the axle around?

In that existing slipper spring setup, I'd still get toe out if I turned the axle around. I thought I'd get toe in, but I didn't.
The axle is square tube and it has a built in bow in it to give camber on the wheels. It only does that though if the square tube of the axle is setting at the right position... When that square tube gets turned one way or the other the camber will become toe in or toe out. It all has to do with which way the bow in the axle is facing. Does that better help what I'm trying to explain???

[doug hodder]

Dean...am I understanding this correctly?...are you trying to use the rear slipper portion somehow to install the shackles? If so, chances are, it isn't going to work and you need to cut them off and get the correct part to install a shackle type rear attachment. I don't remember what the eye to eye measurement was on those springs, but it may not be compatable with what is welded up on your frame...Doug

[madjack]

hey, ya ol' cheapskate Nor-oui-ge-can.... spring r cheeeep ..........

[Podunkfla]

Dean... I would think you could redrill the shackles 1" shorter and solve the problem? Also, is your axle tube round or square? If round it should be easy to rotate it till the wheels are parallel, I would think. Square would be a little harder... prolly have to weld a shim in place to tilt the axle... still not all that hard to do. Just me thinkin again...

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

Doug,
The slipper tabs got sawed off and are laying on the shop floor.

Jack,
You make fun of me, but you help me with that link,,, It has a diagram that shows what I was looking for... It tells me that I need shorter shackles or taller front mounts.
If I can't find shorter shackles, I'll just cut these ones down and redrill.

[Nitetimes]

BTW Rich, if you see this post... It took me a half hour just to figure out why the holes on the rear mounts were offset.... Good head scratchin' day.

At least ya figured it out, most people never even realize it until it's too late.

Got enough room to re-drill the shackles? If you need an inch I would think you should. It's a 9/16" hole BTW.

[madjack]

Doug,
The slipper tabs got sawed off and are laying on the shop floor.

Jack,
You make fun of me, but you help me with that link,,, It has a diagram that shows what I was looking for... It tells me that I need shorter shackles or taller front mounts.
If I can't find shorter shackles, I'll just cut these ones down and redrill.

...that was the intention(help that is).............................

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

Thanks all... just need to learn more automotive stuff besides auto glass.
Rich, I did have to call my brother-in-law and ask him if that was why those holes were offset, I also had another idea as to why, but I won't go into that one...

Oh Hey Doug,
I had no choice but to pull the body off of that... It's all because of the rear mount, gotta remove some of the thickness of the skirt around the shackle... the bolt closest to the frame needs more clearance. (Don't know if you noticed or not, but the guy had used 2 x 4's to back up his skirt)

[doug hodder]

Doug,
The slipper tabs got sawed off and are laying on the shop floor.

Dean....that's probably why they won't fit. you need a mounting bracket that is actually welded to the frame... did you get a U shaped piece of iron or an eye that can be welded on to attach the rear shackles to? doug
Doug,

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

Come on man give me a break...
Yes I did, but what I was unclear on was not knowing that shackles as short as I needed to match the front mount were even available... I began to wonder if the front mount for the single eye of the slipper spring was what was throwing everything amuck...
I'm told that they do make the iddy bitty ones that I need.
The ones I have now will make the rear shackle mount an inch lower than the front mount... They have two 9/16" holes centered 2 1/4" appart.
The new ones that I need will have two 9/16" holes centered a whopping 1 1/4" appart... Now that's a short shackle.

[doug hodder]

Dean...I'm just giving you a bad time...remember when I went to Minden and flattened them...I just stuck a taller shackle in the rear end and it gave me the clearance I needed...it was a typical trick back in the late 60's and 70's to give a car more clearance for the new "fat" tires that were so necessary on a 6 cyl Nova, Duster etc......Don't sweat the shackle length...I'd stick some with like 2.5" C to C holes in it and go with that, not enough...go taller. Just make sure that you get the mounting point on the frame correct... just so that the shackles can't work overcenter on a big bump. As I recall, you didn't have a lot of axle clearance on the frame, might be someone elses, however, a taller shackle in the rear will take care of some of that, maybe jack up the rear end and determine how much axle clearance you want between it and the frame...get some shackles that will work...In Minden..I had a machine shop punch out a set for 10$....got me home and then some...doug

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

Hey Brick,
Didn't see your posts before, we must have posted at or about the same time... Thanks for the advise.
Well... A new day and a new thought... get the old style rear brackets that look just like the end of a leaf spring... that would help out.
Found one in this whole town, need two. Thought about lobbing the ends of the slipper springs off and using those, but don't know if spring steel takes a weld OK...
Also discovered this morning that I can't gain a full inch less, like I wanted... wasn't taking the thickness of the eye and sleeve on the mount into account. Thought about laying the rear bracket on it's side and positioning the offset hole right next to the frame rail... Would need to do some major grinding on the bracket and the ends of the shackles for pivoting clearances...
I'm ready to say (bleep) it and run what I got.