Ultralight chassis for Generic Benroy?

[Snide61]

Still putting together a plan for a generic Benroy. I guess if I'm going to plan it I need to start at the bottom.

Would the ultralight frame (either bolted or welded) be sufficient for a 5x8 Benroy?

The ultalight plans call for 2"x2"x1/8" angle . . . what is the trade off for going 2"x2"x3/16"? I've read the thread about angle iron strengths and it's all swahilli to me I have to be told or shown something to comprehend it when it comes to math. My initial thought is that the extra thickness will guarantee that it will hold up to the stresses. However for the extra 1/16" thickness am I totally defeating the purpose of the ultralight?

Also, what its the weight difference between the generic bolt toghether 5x8 trailer vs the ultralight?

[Randy G]

I used angle for my benroy frame. (photos in album)The tear is 4x9 and weighs in about 600 lbs. I need it lite to pull with my small car.
I have a utility trailer I use ALOT for hauling firewood and a riding lawnmower for lawncare business. Never a problem. Most, way overbuild.

[Carter]

Snide
The 2x2 1/8" angle is 1.65 lbs. per foot, the 3/16" is 2.44 lbs. If you're using 24' the weights will be 40lbs. for the 1/8" angle and 59 lbs. for the 3/16" Per Andrews tongue strength charts in the Design Library,with those materials a 42" A frame tongue is only good for a 320 lb. total weight trailer with the 1/8" and 480 lbs. for the 3/16" For comparison, 2x2 square tube will allow a trailer weight of 1480 lbs. at 74 lbs. for the same 24'. That's 1000 lbs. more capacity for the same weight penalty as a half full blue Coleman Water Jug. No choice in my book. I don't know much about the HF trailers but I believe they use channel on the tongue and the vertical strength and weight would be between angle and tube.

I'd guess the tongue strength tables include some degree of safety margin and less strength may be fine. Randy G's is probably a great compromise. The tongue member appears to be a 2x2" or bigger square tube. At 1/8" that would be good for 740 lbs or more at 42" long plus the angles and the weight would be minimal.

My opinions only, enjoy your build

Jim

[angib]

The strengths given in the table on the Tongue Strength page are based on the Australian trailer rules, as written for utility (ie, abused) trailers. From what people have reported on this site, I think teardrops can be double the weight that the Aussie rules allow.

So the 3/16" angle would allow a trailer weight up to 960lb for a 42" tongue length which is enough for a lightly-built Gen Ben - but throw 3/4" ply at it everywhere and that's not enough.

It's important to note that the tongue length is critical - the longer tongue, the lower the maximum weight.

Andrew

[Carter]

Hello Andrew

Figured I might get a response from you. I'm sure the angle would be fine. I just prefer to go a little to the safe side on the tongue. My standy was built on a pop-up frame and after a couple of years use it started going south. Had to have it replaced at some expense. I just prefer to use 20 or 30 more pounds of steel in the tongue and not worry about it. I'm building a 5x8 frame now. 2x2 tongue members and 1x2 x 1/8 channel for the side rails and crossmembers. No lumber in the floor, just the channel sheeted with 1/2 ply. Sides do not have to carry a lot of load and can be made quite light. Not the only way of doing things, just the way I'm pursuing it this time.

Jim

[BigDaddyCool]

my utility trailer is built from 2x2x3/16 angles and it's been abused manytime and no problem so far ....

and the tongue is very long, 2x2x1/8 tube no problem also

it's not even an a frame

[Snide61]

Excellent information everyone. My target weight is going to be 750lbs. I've decided I"m going to do sandwich walls for some weight reduction and I am keeping the electrical and galley minimal.

I like the idea of the tubing for only 20 more lbs give or take. Sticking with the a-frame idea I would rather be safe than sorry. I noticed on the diagrams that it gives you an option and calculations for 36" or 42" tongue. I was figuring on using the 36" length to increase the carrying capacity of the tongue. Any thoughs on the two sizes?

[Carter]

Snide,
Tongue length is a personal preference. My tow vehicle is a full size pickup and about 80 inches wide. I prefer a 48 inch tongue so If needed I can crank it around near 90 degrees with some room to spare. In real world use that seldom happens and I could get by with less. The further from the coupler to the axle, the easier it is to back, so a long tongue helps with that. It's not a big deal, just requires a gentle hand on the steering. I would probably figure out how wide the tow vehicle is, divide that by 2, add 4,6,8 inches for clearance and call that my tongue length. There may be some formula for this, our resident engineer Andrew may have one. I don't have any idea how the commercial trailer builders do it. I'm guessing many just use "past practice"

Jim

[Snide61]

Jim,

I'm interested in your build you metioned. What kind of cost do you estimate you will have when done with the rolling chassis? And how much do you estimate it will weigh all-told?

I ask because it was posted here that you can get a Northern Tool 5x8 on sale w/ free shipping. I looked at it and it is the bolt-together design and the total shipping weight is 265lbs. Cost is $579. I am trying to figure up the cost-to-weight value between the two. I don't know how much the Torqueflex axles are, but I think I saw where you can estimate $400.

The ultralight is still and option, but I think I would like to be able to put a back bumper on the camper knowing how I am and having a full metal frame would allow me to do so.

[Carter]

The $579 is a good price for a 5x8. You would have a hard time beating it unless you have access to free welding. I have $250 in steel, $275 in a set of Flexiride half axles, and $25 in a coupler. That's $550 and doesn't include the cost of the welding or the wheels and tires. The steel calculates to 175 lbs plus about 40 lbs for the axles. I don't know what the 12" wheels that come with the kit trailers weigh. A scratch built can be stronger and built any way you want but it's not really a way to save much money on a comparable trailer. Mine does have stabilizer jack mounts at all 4 corners and a A frame jack mount in the tongue. You would have to add those to the kit trailer if you want them

The picture below is similar to what I'm building. The green is 2x2 11 ga. tubing and the blue is 2x2x1/8 angle. I switched to 1x2 channel. I added 1 more crossmember ahead of the axle and may use 1/2" ply or a Luan ply/foam sandwich for the floor. It only has to span 18" or so. Shouldn't need any wood framing. The chassis is pretty stiff, the sides could be built quite light. I'll get some pictures this weekend of where I'm at. I probably won't use the channel again. It wants to move around a bit with welding. I'm a freak about straight, square and level. It's taking a lot of time and clamps to keep it right. 2x2 angle weighs the same and would probably be easier to work with.

I enjoy designing and fabricating things. If I was just looking for a frame to start a tear I'd probably buy the kit trailer and add what I need.

Jim

[Snide61]

Jim,

How do you go about buying or at least pricing the flexiride axles? I went to their website (from googling the name) and couldn't see how to get pricing. They have a "shop" feature, but it looks like it was for a dealer to create and account to order from the company. When looking at the Dexter axles I found out that there is a dealer in my town that I can talk to. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Scott

Oh yeah, and the welding isn't a problem . . . as long as I pitch in a spool of wire I'm sure my brother-in-law will help me out. He's got a little 110v gasless welder and used to work as a fabricator.

[Carter]

Dexter has dealers everywhere but the most common Flexiride outlet I've seen in the US is Southwest Wheel in Texas. I mail ordered my half axles from them. About $275 with shipping. The 2000 lb full axle is about the same price. The only advantage to the Flexiride is that the trailing arm is on a spline so ride height is user adjustable. Dexters can be ordered with different start angles but are fixed. Dexter also allows you to order theirs with lower weight ratings. For example you can get a 2000 lb axle with 1500 lb rated rubber. I understand Dexter is real good about helping you figure out what you need if you order it directly from them. The half axles require more work to install and really have no advantage in a standard tear drop that I can see. I bought them because I was unsure of ride height and frame width and liked the stock 1400# rating. Next time I'll just figure out what I want and order a full axle. By the way, I ordered mine from Texas, when they showed up they had a tag that says Axis Products, Elkart IN. Axis is a manufacturer, but has an Ebay store and It looks like they may sell retail. might be worth a call. You live close enough to pick it up and spend the day having fun at all the area RV surplus joints. Don't miss Bontragers in White Pidgeon, MI

Jim

[Carter]

Scott
How about this as a compromise. 2x2 tube tongue and a 2x2x1/8" angle frame perimeter with the flange up. That's less than 100 lbs plus the axle. Steel cost about $100. Drop in a 2x2 floor frame and 1/2" ply floor. That probably adds 80#. Cover the frame with the sides and attach them with 1/4-20 self tapping deck screws through the flange and into the floor frame. That should be pretty strong without much weight or cost penalty.

Just my 3 cents worth

Jim

(http://abctrailerparts.com/Floor-Screws.html)

[Snide61]

I like that idea and thanks for the rendering. I've been toying w/ sketchup to learn how to do the same thing so I can get all of my dimesions and all that ironed out, but I'm still toying with stuff. I will definitely take this in to consideration. BUT, before I can get started I need to sell the quad . . . and its just not getting any action.

[Snide61]

Jim,

In this layout are you attaching the 2x2 tube for the tongue to the front angle and the two side angles? Stopping short of the actual axle?

Thanks,
Scott