Well I'm Hooked!

[switterstx]

Over the weekend my wife and I had lots of opportunities to talk about what we wanted and what this thing would look like. So far this is where it's gone:
Aluminum skin
Definitely AC or the option for it at some point
Skylight/moonroof is an option, not a necessity
I have to build the storage shed I've been planning for a year before I start the trailer!

My dad and I were confused about whether the aluminum would go directly on the spars/frame or if there was some sort of plywood between them. But in looking through some construction picts it looks like the Al runs on top of some sort of plywood.

We could build a frame ourselves but it looks that, for the price, the Tractor Supply trailer is sufficient and requires only a small amount of modification (i.e. axle movement). I feel better about a welded frame as opposed to a bolt together frame.

I liked the canvas option but yeah, the huge hole in the structure is an issue. I think an auto sunroof may suffice if I do it. Or possibly just a window as suggested.

BB, I saw your pictures of your hop vines(?) Indeed! If I get through that part of the country, I'll definitely look you up. May have to make some "camp" beer. Mostly we'll be camping around Texas and in the Austin area we have most of the micro brews available at the store. For me, draft beer is a simple luxury that I'd love to have when I camp, and Texas Parks have this rule that states, "no public consumption of alcohol". Which we've interpreted as, "don't let us see your beer bottles/cans, and don't get sloppy drunk."

Speaking of camping. My wife suggested I see if I could find a tear drop rally somewhere in this summer. I'd love to make it to Petit Jean or MadJack's schindig but I'm afraid it is just too far with our schedules to fit into a weekend (9 hours to Ark, 6 to La.). I'm going to keep an eye out for stuff a little closer to the Hill Country. We're heading to Colorado Bend this weekend.

Thanks for all the input. I'm getting anxious to get this started. Gotta get my shed built!

[steve wolverton]

I'm going to keep an eye out for stuff a little closer to the Hill Country. We're heading to Colorado Bend this weekend.

We *really* need to do a teardrop gathering in the Hill Country. Most of them have been north & east.

BTW, where is Drippin' Texas? Dripping Springs?

Colorado Bend is the park with the waterfall right?

I'm going to be out that way with the Puffin in a week or so. (Pedernales Falls, Georgetown, and McKinney Falls) and you're welcome to look at my camper for idea. I know it's not a tear, or clad in aluminum, but it may give you some ideas of what to do on your build.

[switterstx]

Steve, just say the word. My wife may not be up for it but I should be. Colorado bend does have the waterfall. We haven't been so we're very excited. We're trying to make this an annual thing for us and another couple. Last year we went to Inks Lake right after our wedding.

Pedernales falls is about 20 minutes from the house, only about 10 miles as the crow flies. The river should be flowing great. All the springs and creeks are up around here.

Drippin' = Dripping Springs. I'm actually near the corner of RR12 and Hamilton Pool Rd (3238).

Take care,
Tom

[Ira]

Tom, yeah...your aluminum skins go on a ceiling ply substrate, and cheap luan is fine if you can find it in the size you need. As a substrate, that's not much of an issue, but keep "standard" sizes in mind as far as aluminum skins go:

If you decide to build a 5 by 10, you're gonna need 5 by 10 aluminum. Not always easy to find in your area. 6-foot wide and you can forget it without seaming.

Also, if you're doing alumimum skins in Texas, I would say that air is not something to consider later, but to design into the build right now:

A window shaker (window AC) is dirt cheap, and depending on whether you want to position it in the rear of the cabin to vent through the galley, or to the side, or in the front over the tongue...this is something you want to know about before putting those aluminum skins on.

This will also affect your FRAMING.

By the way:

The hell with the shed. This is a lot more fun, and responsibility has little place in a Teardropper's vocabulary.

[switterstx]

Ira, I am all for that. Problem is I don't have a dry space to work (no garage). I thought my little car port was fairly out of the weather but the storms we got this spring (50mph driving rain) proved me wrong. 10' of covered area and everything was wet.

So I'm realizing I was reading things all wrong. 4x8 not only refers to the floor/trailer frame but also the profile. Is that correct? I'm going to shorten my frame specs but I like the overhang of the front and back of my profile.

Yeah, I'm planning on framing for an ac, along with wiring. It would only be used when shore power is available. I also saw some set up where they replaced the door with one with a window unit in it. Torpedo hinges or some such? I'm about to head off to cad class, I'm going to play with that profile a bit.

[Tear Les]

So I'm realizing I was reading things all wrong. 4x8 not only refers to the floor/trailer frame but also the profile. Is that correct? I'm going to shorten my frame specs but I like the overhang of the front and back of my profile.

Hmmm , not necessarily. You can go wider and/or longer than the base frame you're building on. A 4 x 8 trailer (planform), as evidenced by lots of them here, can work but it might be a tad tight depending on your needs and wants. I figured out a way to live with an 8-foot length but I knew my wife and I would do bodily harm to each other in a trailer only 4-foot wide. I have a 4 x 8 Harbor Freight 1800 trailer but I'll put the 5' x 8' base down on that and overhang 6" on either side. The sides are 4' x 8' still; for this first one (I'm already planning a second) I didn't want to mess with making (or finding) larger plywood sheets.

So, you can go bigger on your base (5 x 8 or 5 x 9, etc) and go to 4 x 8 or 4 x 9 on your sides as well (or longer or taller as needed for your design).

Have fun!

[Tallguy3578]

Well, hurry up and get that daggone shed done! I have been promised that once I complete our room addition, I can have free reign to work on my tear. This room addition has taken it's sweet time, but lately it's been going up pretty quick! I wonder what's gotten me so motivated?

[Ira]

So I'm realizing I was reading things all wrong. 4x8 not only refers to the floor/trailer frame but also the profile. Is that correct?

Well, you weren't really reading it wrong because it refers to both:

That's why the "standard" TD, if there is such a thing, has a 4 by 8 frame (not including the tongue, of course), and has 4 high by 8 long sides, trimmed to whatever profile.

This allows you to buy all of those standard 4 by 8 sheets of crap.

Go 5' wide, and now you gotta find 5' wide material for the roof. If you're skinning with aluminum, no big deal to seam the wood substrate underneath--as long as you can get the 5' wide aluminum to cover it. If you're going to cover your roof with an additional WOOD skin (what we call a Woody), you'll need 5' wood material.

Suitable 5' wood material that will BEND no less. (This is why luan is so often used for the subsurface under aluminum--it bends like a mother.) But good luck finding OTHER suitable stuff in 5'. ! I actually had my FOUR foot bendy birch shipped to me in South Florida from MASSACHUSETTS!

Same deal for your walls and side skins. If you go 5' tall, you're gonna need to find material in those dimensions, depending on what you have in mind.

All of this is easily or not so easily doable, fixable--but you have to keep it all in mind now.

[Miriam C.]

to the playground Tom. I just hate being late to the party. It looks like you are well on your way so enjoy!

[switterstx]

Tallguy: I got all the wood for the floor/foundation of the shed today. Dang!, lumber is expensive. I'm with you. I was going to put off the shed until the fall, when the temperature drops below 90°. Well looks like I'll be raising walls in June/July.

Ira, I want to sit down and visit with you at some point. You remind me of the guys I enjoyed talking to in St. Thomas. I figured on the width thing being an issue, I'm not going any wider than 4'. What about length? Vertical seams on the sides if the length is longer than 8', does that work? Same for the roof, how bad is it if I seam it? I'm not going for woody, too hard to hide my mistakes. Part of my reasoning for finishing the shed first is to get my wood skills up. I just screwed up a saw horse...

Regarding a trailer frame, my dad said I'd need to go with 1/4" wall 2x2 tubing. That seems extremely over-engineered. And my little mig won't cut it for welding that thick, 1/8" is pushing its 70% duty cycle. Granted, he could build it but the weight would be an issue. I wandered around his yard the other day and found 3 or 4 axles that would work, one was the front end of a model T he says. Most of them had big wheels on them, one was a 7 or 8 stud wheel. Maybe I'll get pictures next time I'm down there, see what the bunch here thinks.

One of the trailer was an old sprayer trailer. Had a huge tank (300-400 gallons?) and a gas powered pump originally, now a two axle flatbed. Any tandem axle tears?

I've got to get this d*&$ shed finished...

[Ira]

What about length? Vertical seams on the sides if the length is longer than 8', does that work? Same for the roof, how bad is it if I seam it?

Tom, I am one of the WORST builders here, but I've learned a lot of the theories and seen how people have done theirs.

Yes, you can easily seam the sides to go longer than 8'. But you may not have to do that for the roof--remember that the main roof piece of ply only goes from the front of the frame to the hinge of the hatch. But I'm not sure, and you may HAVE to seam that roof length-wise.

You also said that it would hard for you to hide your mistakes with a Woody, but for me, the opposite is true:

If your intention is to use your side walls (whether framed or solid) as the final surface without skinning at all, there are lot of details and mistakes to hide (screw heads and such). Also, in doing this, you don't want to use just any crappy ply--unless you just want to paint it.

So for mine, I used 3/8" ply for my walls and 1 by 2 framing (with insulation). Then, I just glued on beaded birch "paneling" and spar-vanished. (Also tacked it in around the perimeter.) This skin HID all of the bad stuff, like the screws going into my spars.

For the roof, you don't need thick material at ALL, but you need something that bends. It's not like your walls in this regard. So all my roof is is 1/4" bendy birch ply(spar varnished) glued to the spars--that's it. You can also nail/screw it into the very ends of the spars, because you'll be installing trim there anyway to hide the heads. (I used rope because I'm a total nut.)

And a reason why a woody is easier to hide your mistakes than doing no skins at all or skinning with aluminum:

You really want to countersink, fill and smooth any screw heads going into surfaces that will eventually be covered with aluminum. If you don't, they're really going to show through the aluminum.

With additional wood skins, it was simple--I just stuck 'em on.

You just use like 1/8" stuff fr the skin, anything that's a good material and that you prep against the elements. In my case, I used that same beaded birch for my cabin walls.

[Tear Les]

Tallguy: I got all the wood for the floor/foundation of the shed today. Dang!, lumber is expensive. I'm with you. I was going to put off the shed until the fall, when the temperature drops below 90°. Well looks like I'll be raising walls in June/July.

Ira, I want to sit down and visit with you at some point. You remind me of the guys I enjoyed talking to in St. Thomas. I figured on the width thing being an issue, I'm not going any wider than 4'. What about length? Vertical seams on the sides if the length is longer than 8', does that work? Same for the roof, how bad is it if I seam it? I'm not going for woody, too hard to hide my mistakes. Part of my reasoning for finishing the shed first is to get my wood skills up. I just screwed up a saw horse...

Regarding a trailer frame, my dad said I'd need to go with 1/4" wall 2x2 tubing. That seems extremely over-engineered. And my little mig won't cut it for welding that thick, 1/8" is pushing its 70% duty cycle. Granted, he could build it but the weight would be an issue. I wandered around his yard the other day and found 3 or 4 axles that would work, one was the front end of a model T he says. Most of them had big wheels on them, one was a 7 or 8 stud wheel. Maybe I'll get pictures next time I'm down there, see what the bunch here thinks.

One of the trailer was an old sprayer trailer. Had a huge tank (300-400 gallons?) and a gas powered pump originally, now a two axle flatbed. Any tandem axle tears?

I've got to get this d*&$ shed finished...

Go find a big cardboard box you can cut up and set up a couple of side walls to get a feel for a 4' wide space. Remember that dimension is to the outside of your TD so subtract the thickness of the walls (say 3" if you build 1.5" side walls); now the bed area is 45" wide. See if that works for you. Going 5-wide if you need to is not a difficult thing; you can use 5 x 5 birch panels or you can use 4 x 8 sheets across the width (so you can go 8-wide if you want!).

Scarfing the plywood into longer than 8-foot sheets is common practice. Look that up on your favorite Internet search engine and you'll get more than you bargained for! It's especially used in wooden boat building. There's lot of information here too and Steve Frederick (also on the forum here) has a Builder's Manual that's quite good and explains several ways to do it (I just received my copy and thoroughly enjoyed it).

For your trailer frame 1/4" wall tubing would be considered gross over-building compared to most of the frames used. (There's a link to a frame tutorial ("Trailer Tutorial") at the top of every page.) There are a lot of folks that think 1/8" is even heavier than necessary. As Andrew has said the frame is just a way to drag the body around; it just forms a perch for the body as the body itself is self-supporting and strong on it's own. So if your body weighs, say, 500 pounds, you just need a trailer that's beefy enough to handle that weight plus whatever contents you'll haul.

Time and time again folks get done with their TDs & TTTs and remark that they're overweight and overbuilt. I'm going to say the same; I bought a Harbor Freight 1740-pound capacity trailer. My TD/TTT body will maybe go 600 or so pounds. I hardly need a trailer capable of hauling almost three times that weight. The flip side is the trailer was on sale ($299) and doesn't weight much more than a smaller trailer. [The "C" shaped main frame rails are 1/8" by the way; the cross members smaller.]

[switterstx]

Scarfing the plywood into longer than 8-foot sheets is common practice. Look that up on your favorite Internet search engine and you'll get more than you bargained for! It's especially used in wooden boat building. There's lot of information here too and Steve Frederick (also on the forum here) has a Builder's Manual that's quite good and explains several ways to do it (I just received my copy and thoroughly enjoyed it).

For your trailer frame 1/4" wall tubing would be considered gross over-building compared to most of the frames used. (There's a link to a frame tutorial ("Trailer Tutorial") at the top of every page.) There are a lot of folks that think 1/8" is even heavier than necessary. As Andrew has said the frame is just a way to drag the body around; it just forms a perch for the body as the body itself is self-supporting and strong on it's own. So if your body weighs, say, 500 pounds, you just need a trailer that's beefy enough to handle that weight plus whatever contents you'll haul.

TL, I looked at the tutorial and it does have great information but what I needed specifically was a materials list. For the main part of the frame it doesn't tell me anything with regards to the tubing, just how to get it square. But your info helps a lot! Thank you.

I'm considering that CD/Manual. Thanks for the feedback on it.

[Tear Les]

Darn...I should have gone back and read that tutorial again! I thought it had some material suggestions in it which is one of the reasons I pointed it out.

Somewhere in this vast reservoir of knowledge there are some posts on this very subject and some good observations by our resident engineer (though he lives across the pond) Andrew. If you go to his site (Design Library at the top of the page) and look at some of the .pdf files of his various designs he often has the tubing size and wall thickness called out. Also, have a look at Grant's site at http://www.teardrops.net/LilBear/parts6.html#frames, as he has some specs for his frames there; maybe that'll give you some ideas. I just think 1/4" is way over the top but I'm tying to head you to some better info rather than me just flappin' my gums (since I'm not an expert on frames at all).

[switterstx]

Somewhere in this vast reservoir of knowledge there are some posts on this very subject and some good observations by our resident engineer (though he lives across the pond) Andrew. If you go to his site (Design Library at the top of the page) and look at some of the .pdf files of his various designs he often has the tubing size and wall thickness called out. Also, have a look at Grant's site http://www.teardrops.net/LilBear/parts6.html#frames as he has spme specs for his frames there and maybe that'll give you some ideas. I just think 1/4" is way over the top but I'm tying to head you to some better info rather than me just flappin' my gums (since I'm not an expert on frames at all).

Les,

That link to Lil'Bear did the trick. Not only is it lighter than 1/4" it is lighter than I thought it needed to be. I'll search around for more info on frame stuff in the forum, thanks so much for your help.