Batteries

[defjr333]

Ive been collecting my parts for my build. I want to have as much ready to go when i start my build in a few months. Originally was just going to use batteries from my last creation. But with so many new parts I think i should just bite the bullet and buy all new batteries. SO, with that in mind what brand/ size/ aH are you guys using, and why? I want round 800-1000aH as I do plan to boondock at times. Current equipment is as follows:
AIMs 3000W/ 9000W peak inverter/ charger with built in xfer switch
Suburban DEL10DE Hot Water Heater. LP and Electric heating element
Suburban NT-20SEQ Furnace. LP powered, does use 12vdc for fan
Generic Branded 24" LCD TV. 12vdc and 120ac power ability
Lenovo laptop
5 10W LED lights in ceiling 12vdc
2 12' LED light strips
2 LED reading lights
Shureflow 12vdc water pump
2 Fantastic Fan Vents 12vdc
Avanti 5.5 cuft side by side mini fridge. 12vdc and 120ac
Hamilton Beach 900W microwave oven
Haier 6000BTU AC unit

**AC unit will be wired into system to only work from shore or generator power**
All other items wired to Progressive Dynamics 60Amp AC/ DC distribution center which is fed by AIMS inverter on AC side via 00awg wire to Batteries and 10awg from inverter to shore power 60amp plug. DC side fed by 4awg wire from Batteries to distribution panel.

Looking for what brands/ configuration/ voltage batteries worked best for you all. One can read stats and technical write ups all day, I want real world experience, and you guys fit the bill
So, lemme know your good, bad, and even humorous experiences on batteries for your CT/ RV etc. Loo forward to the replies

[John61CT]

Best value for a straightforward setup is 6v golf-car style true deep cycle x2 in series = 12v.

Are you sure you'll be able to recharge to true 100% at least a few times per week? This means frequent overnight stays on shore power, or solar+gennie backup if boondocking.

If so, then Rolls or Trojan if you can afford it.

Otherwise Sam's Club, bit better than Costco, but just go for cheapest per AH.

Do NOT believe anything else from mass market retail, "marine" and "deep cycle" in that context is a lie/scam.

Crown or Interstate can be good if you can pick up a bargain locally, ask re blemish/scratch and dent. Make sure not to ask these vendors about 12V batteries though, nothing quoting CCA for starting purposes, you want golf cart **true deep cycling**.

----
If you know you'll be "abusing" them by charging up only partially most of the time, then invest in Firefly Oasis and make sure your charge sources comply with their voltage range specs, and follow their deep-discharge/full recharge protocol to restore capacity from shore power when you get the chance, I'd do that at least monthly, some say quarterly's OK.

They are the **only** lead-based chemistry that will give years of service in a PSOC abuse situation.

LiFePO4 will also, even better ROI, but super-expensive up front and too easy to kill them by accident without lots of protective $$ electronics.

[defjr333]

yeah, forgot to state this is a 12v system. i know, 24 or 48 would be more efficient, but i have reasons. Looking at 3 or 4 225ah 8D batteries now. I do have a good size generator and plan to have 4 300W solar panels as well. PV will be next parts ordered after batteries and last of the LP system parts

[John61CT]

The starter form factors like 4D, 8D, Group 24, 27 & 31 12V batteries are 99.99% starter batteries, yes "dual use" may allow for "deeper" cycling than super-cheap passenger car starter batts, but not enough to justify their higher price.

Stick to flooded GC2 form factor to get good value, thousands of cycles rather than hundreds,

Trojan T105s are the benchmark, some places you can find them only 50% more per AH than the East Penns at Sam's Club, that would be a good deal.

[John61CT]

Trojan T1275 is one of the very few 12v true deep cycles commonly available.

With a bigger system, if you want larger AH so fewer cells to connect together, a bigger, say 200+AH cell would be good, or even 300+ ​e.g Trojan L16RE-A.

Damn heavy though! That's a big point in favour of LFP, I think 5x energy density per weight, and allow drawing down 80% rather than lead's 50% limit for longevity.

[John61CT]

Also note if you're already investing in Trojan, it's worth paying a little more for the longevity/PSOC tolerance of the "RE" versions rather than "AC" which expects 100% charging on shore power every cycle.

[John61CT]

Rolls Surrette is really top-notch though, if you can find that within 30% of Trojan, per AH may have to pay for delivery that would be a good deal.

But again only if your situation can guarantee 100% charging very frequently, if not then go Sam's Club or Firefly.

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Wow "LiFePO4 will also, even better ROI, but super-expensive up front and too easy to kill them by accident without lots of protective $$ electronics.
Last edited by John61CT on Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
John61CT"

I actually own and use 2,000 ah of Lifep04 in my build and have found much of the above to be folklore. There still seams to be an endless supply of lithium experts who do not actually own a single AH Of said batteries.

Cheers

Overthetopcargotrailer

[John61CT]

So I have the opportunity to pick up a big batch of barely used CALBs for under half the new price, sorely tempted.

Other than the charger, what ancillary electronics do you recommend to protect and maintain such a bank?

Say a dozen cells, 3 parallel 12v sets.

I am not willing or able to babysit manually other than manual checking/rebalancing say quarterly, want to be able to automate both charging and low-SoC alarms then cutoffs for loads.

Don't want to spend much more than a grand on top of the cells themselves.

Any specific pointers would be greatly appreciated.

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

John

Lithium are so simple , a kindergarten kid can program them.

Now the Blue 100 ah CLAB or CALB? cells are about 3+ years old and out of production. I got many of them and they still work great. 12 cells = a 300 ah battery , about same as 600 ah flooded.

I set my charge controller / charger at 13.9v max the inverter LBCO at 12.5 volts. Most of the time batteries are at 13.2v....

Your system matches up to a 300+ solar panel.

Batteries don't charge well below 40F , keep them between 40F and 85F for longest life.

To start with charge all your 12 cells inline together at 3.35v max over 1-7 days allowing them to equalize.

In an rv configuration they won't need BMS ......I would recommend don't charge with more than 40 amps , or discharge over 30 amps for longer duration. 100 amps for 1 -3 minute micro is ok.

Cheers

overthetopcargotrailer

[warnmar10]

John

Lithium are so simple , a kindergarten kid can program them.

Now the Blue 100 ah CLAB or CALB? cells are about 3+ years old and out of production. I got many of them and they still work great. 12 cells = a 300 ah battery , about same as 600 ah flooded.

I set my charge controller / charger at 13.9v max the inverter LBCO at 12.5 volts. Most of the time batteries are at 13.2v....

Your system matches up to a 300+ solar panel.

Batteries don't charge well below 40F , keep them between 40F and 85F for longest life.

To start with charge all your 12 cells inline together at 3.35v max over 1-7 days allowing them to equalize.

In an rv configuration they won't need BMS ......I would recommend don't charge with more than 40 amps , or discharge over 30 amps for longer duration. 100 amps for 1 -3 minute micro is ok.

Cheers

overthetopcargotrailer

Where did you source your battery?

[John61CT]

What no automated protection against overvoltage or too-deep discharge?

No temperature protection?

No detecting bad cells or just unbalanced issues?

We're talking thousands here, and I'm very forgetful and careless, will be away at work with kids running the show...

And at 300-500 AH, obviously can scale up C rates (and costs) proportionally.

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

What no automated protection against overvoltage or too-deep discharge?

Charge controller set at 13.9 when charging. Inverter set at 12.5v LBCO-
low battery cut out. NO BCM required.

No temperature protection?

Temperature protection for what ????

No detecting bad cells or just unbalanced issues?

Told you RV use no problem. Max 40 amp discharge, 30 amp charge.

We're talking thousands here, and I'm very forgetful and careless, will be away at work with kids running the show...

12 cells used $50 =$600

And at 300-500 AH, obviously can scale up C rates (and costs) proportionally.

Yes if one cell goes bad it can be replaced. Or 4 cells added for extra 100 ah. BUT THEN REBLANCE RECOMMENDED.

Cheers ottct

[rruff]

Are you sure you'll be able to recharge to true 100% at least a few times per week? This means frequent overnight stays on shore power, or solar+gennie backup if boondocking.

Solar alone or the alternator won't do it?

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

There is ZERO NEED to ever charge lithium batteries to 100% in an RV use.
Maybe in a dragster but not RV use.

If lithium battery is 12v and charge source is 12.01v it will ever so slowly charge.

If flooded is 12v and charging source is 12.5v no charge ....