IDEAS ON HOW TO INSULATE THE FLOOR FOR CAMPING FALL MONTHS

[Gonefishin]

Thanks Teach! You are amazing all right. I am not worthy. But I will study more and try to be a better student. Tonight , boys and girls, I learned from further review on the almighty internet, and thanks to our dear professor OTTCT:

Nocturnal ice making:

In India before the invention of artificial refrigeration technology, ice making by nocturnal cooling was common. The apparatus consisted of a shallow ceramic tray with a thin layer of water, placed outdoors with a clear exposure to the night sky. The bottom and sides were insulated with a thick layer of hay. On a clear night the water would lose heat by radiation upwards. Provided the air was calm and not too far above freezing, heat gain from the surrounding air by convection would be low enough to allow the water to freeze by dawn.

The same radiative cooling mechanism can sometimes cause frost or black ice to form on surfaces exposed to the clear night sky, even when the ambient temperature does not fall below freezing

Really Jerry, you showed us all on that one! Don't be amazed that you have to teach us everything. Some of us are just hicks from the sticks, living in the forgotten time zone, our brains frozen much of the year, with a passion for redneck trailers.

[Prem]

Jerry,

It got up to exactly 37*F here today. The sun was even out. The ice on the roads melted and evaporated where the sun hit it for a while. In the shade, the road ice did not melt. I was gonna take a picture of my digital thermometer laying on the ice reading 37*F, but...you had already done similar.

Any day now, the "Pineapple Express" will blow from south of the Big Island straight to the California-Oregon border, warm us up to 60*, rain like crazy on the snow and ice and swell all the rivers.

I'm tired of the roads being slick as snot in patches. Dangerous!

Jim,

You can cool things that same way a tiny bit faster by putting them (like beer) in a reflective solar collecter at night, aimed at the sky. Just have to insulate them from the ground temp. (Can't insulate them from the air very well.) Seems counter-intuitive at first, but deep space is only 3* Kelvin (-454.27* F). Stuff gets colder than the air temp. You're reflecting the heat (infrared radiation) of the object toward a very cold region of space, robbing it of its molecular activity. AND, what Rainier said in her last post is also apropos to the trailer situation.
(http://www.technologyreview.com/view/513891/solar-cooling-with-photonic-reflector-panel/)

[Tx River Rat]

Still dont buy it , every instance given the ice was formed on the outside not between two layers.
I think OTT has a neat trailer and it fits him and what he wanted to acomplish his goals arent mine , now thats go over some facts,
OTT trailer basicaly is a stick built trailer framed from wood and covered with metal, I have owned several rvs built this way and they all have problems with moisture deterating the wood, second thing he made it worse by his construction ideal metal, then a sheet of ply that is strutural, then foam , now the outside metal will sweat and there is no place to go but into the plywood.
I want no wood in the framing of my trailer ,been there done that
The next thing is building without windows number one its dangerous ,from fumes ,escape in case of fire, and who ever told you that batteries want produce hydrogen anytime they are charged not just floated needs to be watched and sure dont buy a bridge from him.
Having to open the door to use your propane , I bet at 5 below that blows your insulation retained heat all to heck.
Loosing 4 to 6 inches in hieght and several inches in width is not an option . it means to have the same amount of room you have to buy a wider trailer and taller trailer, that means money , plluss the extra fuel you are going to use.
Otc
You set some goals for your trailer and I am glad you are happy with it and it is a fine build, but most of the above is why your build want fit me at all.
To me there is nothing better than a cold morning fire going looking out my window down the side of a mountain drinking a cup of java, I cant do that in your build.
Ron

[Prem]

Ron,

I rolled two coats of polyester resin onto the plywood before I covered it with aluminum sheet when I built my Round Tail trailer. No rot problem. I should have just coated it with roofing tar and then put the aluminum on. Would have been less expense and left no gaps for condensation to form. But the guy that bought it is real happy with it and doesn't heat it in the winter, so it's going to be good for a long while. But I know what you mean about plywood rotting under aluminum. I've disassembled some 1970s campers and trailers. Black rot everywhere.

Prem

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

[Tx River Rat]

Prem
I have built a lot of yaks from ply and strips and when you seal them with poly or epoxy is better it sure helps .
I have built 2 weekenders , a standie, and a 8 ft cabover camper ( I love to build stuff) but they just dont seem to last . That is why I am going to a CT. I dont mind doing it once but hate having to repair the structure on a trailer.
Ron

[Tx River Rat]

OTT
We are saying the same thing, Your trailer fits you, I stated that and I that , I was just trying to make you understand why your setup and mine cant be built the same and please us,My priorities are diferent than yours. To fit my agenda for my trailer I dont need to insulate like you do .
I have owned everything from a pop up to a 35 ft fth wheel and most were junk ,like I stated I want no wood in the struckture of my trailer.
I own a Casita right now and so far it has been the best factory trailer I have ever owned.
Your trailer is one of a kind , mine will also be one of a kind.
Ron

[Prem]

Ron,

Casita! Love em. (You got the curved door or the flat one?)

Yeah, wood changes shape. Fixes required. That's why I got a CT also. (My 10th rig.)

The one rig (Class B 10 ft.jumbo cabover camper on a 1-ton) I built with a skeleton of welded square tube lasted and lasted. I used Medium Density Overlay (MDO) plywood, fiberglass cloth and System 3 epoxy on that one. No problems. I didn't insulate it.

Prem

P.S. I make a paste out of epoxy and microspheres and spread it into edges/void on every piece of plywood. It doesn't delaminate that way.

[Tx River Rat]

Prem
It is a 2013 flat door.
So far it has been a great little camper .
My Ct will be a man den ,used for kayaking hunting and single action shooting events probably some reloading and working on bows and arrows.
Leaving for Tenn next week in the Casita for a few weeks.
Ron
PS > If I ever build another cabover it will be framed in sq tubeing with foam instead of wood and then epoxy and cloth innside and out.

[Prem]

Flat door:

[BC Dave]

& "gone fishing "
...
In India before the invention of artificial refrigeration technology, ice making by nocturnal cooling was common. The apparatus consisted of a shallow ceramic tray with a thin layer of water, placed outdoors with a clear exposure to the night sky. The bottom and sides were insulated with a thick layer of hay. On a clear night the water would lose heat by radiation upwards. Provided the air was calm and not too far above freezing, heat gain from the surrounding air by convection would be low enough to allow the water to freeze by dawn.

The same radiative cooling mechanism can sometimes cause frost or black ice to form on surfaces exposed to the clear night sky, even when the ambient temperature does not fall below freezing

Really Jerry, you showed us all on that one


You can cool things that same way a tiny bit faster by putting them (like beer) in a reflective solar collecter at night, aimed at the sky. Just have to insulate them from the ground temp. (Can't insulate them from the air very well.) Seems counter-intuitive at first, but deep space is only 3* Kelvin (-454.27* F). Stuff gets colder than the air temp. You're reflecting the heat (infrared radiation) of the object toward a very cold region of space, robbing it of its molecular activity. AND, what Rainier said in her last post is also apropos to the trailer situation.
(http://www.technologyreview.com/view/513891/solar-cooling-with-photonic-reflector-panel/)

In a similar situation; that you all have seemed to explained somewhat; while camping at 4-5 am before the sun has risen in the fall; there's no frost on the ground or especially on the car; then as the sun is rising I notice that frost seems to really build on super cooled objects like a car ; so maybe the moisture in the trailer (just from breathing) is drawn to the cold sheet metal through the insulation and freezes as its drawn there on a continuous basis ... voila ... frozen sopping wet insulation and black rotting wood ... huMMMM! and maybe I better get to sealing off all seams and places where that insulation is exposed to the interior of my CT ...HUmmmmm! got me "tinking"

but mayb we should start another post because this was supposed to be about insulating trailer floors ...

[Gonefishin]

[hankaye]

Gonefishin, Howdy;



All depends on what yer used to ...

hank

[Prem]

Upside down


Leveler

[Prem]

Why birds fly south for the winter