Have a design idea... help pick it apart!

Converting Cargo Trailers into TTTs

Postby BC Dave » Wed May 19, 2010 1:07 pm

Kixwy2 wrote:I was seriously considering a 6x10 but when I taped it out on the floor I was a little surprised at how much space was taken up by bed length. Even if I cut the bed to a full size, it only drops 5 inches, from 80 to 75.

I go camping in some very extreme conditions - like out in the desert...

.... if I'm in a spot for a period of time, working a gig or otherwise, I want to be fairly comfortable.

I really like the idea of a galley accessible at the back by the barn doors,

but I'm having issues with the bed and a possible side door...


Beds take up lots of room; so I really like your foldable idea; I think my ply beds are 27X74; there roomy enough; in the 6X10 they stick out slightly beyond the side door; there rounded on the ends, but not "in the way" noticable. with the 3 layered matress system There comfy like a bed; but dont take up as much room.

also consider where you going to store the trailer; add 4-5 ft to the length for the tounge, 12' becomes 17' total ...

extream conditions - plan where the heating & cooling systems will be located, i was surprised at how much heat was drawen out of the trailer by the steel frame in -10 C temps; ice on the inside ... also plan for, cooler, stove, shower / water location options... back barn door galley idea is a good option; im looking at designing something along the outside, with a shelf & awning over the side door...
Last edited by BC Dave on Thu May 20, 2010 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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my thoughts

Postby Nathan N » Wed May 19, 2010 3:49 pm

The "bed in back" had me confused for the longest time. Finally figured it out.

One could use these clamps
Image to compress the seal that Prem expressed concern over. They make them larger I just happened to have these that I picked up at Harbor Freight.

Now that I have the correct ends of the trailer worked out in my head, I will say that two barn doors will evenly split the trailer. Your design would require both of the doors to be open to enter/exit. Consider moving your galley all to one side next to the less opened (first closed) door. It could be a bit wider than the door for storage along the short "hallway" or your could incorporate the storage mounted against the outside wall in the "hallway". This would also lend itself to having a screen door like others have done with their conversions.

Earlier Prem had suggested to someone about a dual sided galley. Your design could be modified so that it could be accessed from inside (during inclement weather) or outside if you opened the second barn door. Perhaps using drawer slides or fold-down tables to extend work surfaces like I did in my conversion.

How are you going to support the bed when folded out into a bed? Are you going to have storage (or small benches) along each wall under the bed to support it when out?

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Postby Prem » Wed May 19, 2010 10:59 pm

Ditto on DougH's and Nathan's galley comments. Function, not symmetry.

:thinking: ;)
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Postby pete42 » Wed May 19, 2010 11:50 pm

At first I could not figure out how you would get past the bed then I relized bed would be in front and galley would be in the back.

If they were switched and a side door added I think it would be better.

but it's your trailer do it like you want.

If and when the day comes I want to have a read ramp to load my mobility scooter and a side entrance door.

I plan on having two folding beds one on each side so I can fold one up to load and carry the scooter.

good luck on what every you decide and keep us informed.
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Postby Kixwy2 » Fri May 21, 2010 12:50 am

Thanks for your comments guys, that really helps!

So here's what I'm thinking: Use the "standard" barn doors for travel or when I leave the site for an extended time only... keep them open while camping and build an inset weatherproof door/wall system like Sonetpro (SteveT) did. (I'm totally in love with his idea and the work is fantastic! :thumbsup: )

Second - 18 inch deep galley counters with cabinets above, one of which folds down for hauling bigger items if necessary. That keeps it flexible and gives me more interior "moving around" space, especially with a porta-potty.

Third - folding sofa/bed. I've thought about this quite a bit, and I hope I can describe it here. Referring to my original bed folding idea, you can see that the pieces are not equal - I have one at 32" and 2 at 24". So the 32" part is static - that's a framing and infrastructure bit that sits at the head of the trailer and becomes the seat and backrest base in the sofa configuration.

Now, using steel (yeah, it's heavier, but cheaper and weldable) I make bed slides. Think drawer slides on steroids. Or a pull out keyboard shelf on a work desk, but with legs. Two sections 24" each, nested just below each other, one with C channel and inset plywood - the other, framing with angle. That section's plywood manually drops into the angle framing. Strategically placed stops and legs keep everything in line.

If done right, I should be able to flip over the last mattress piece over the middle section, pull up the ply, and walk the whole thing up to the sofa configuration. I'm planning on making a custom mattress cover that hinges the three pieces together. The first time I saw this little trick was during a Broadway National Tour, and I figure if they can support 10 dancers and a car, it can hold me up too! :lol: I'll try to draw a sketch when I'm not so tired. Worked an 11 hour day and my brain is a little mushy.

Luckily, I have time, resources, and the ability to make all this - my dad taught me the building and my mom taught me the sewing... Work taught me the electrical. :lol:
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Postby Prem » Fri May 21, 2010 1:19 am

Now you're talking. That'll work.

Impressive skills. :o

Is that really you in the icon photo then?
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Postby Kixwy2 » Fri May 21, 2010 1:28 am

Prem wrote:Now you're talking. That'll work.

Impressive skills. :o

Is that really you in the icon photo then?


Yep. Really me. Taken late at night with Photobooth on my Mac. I'm a totally atypical girl. Even have an old truck that I did a 350 engine swap in . ;)
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Postby bc toys » Fri May 21, 2010 8:12 am

If your going to do a fold-up bed look in cargo at meach4x4 ideals seen it it works great. And welcome to form where you from. I'm and electrition by trade camper by fun. Like your ideals. 8)
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Postby Prem » Fri May 21, 2010 11:05 am

Even have an old truck that I did a 350 engine swap in.


:o :thumbsup:

Glad you're here. Welcome to the group.

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Thinkin' Large & Livin' Small

Postby Engineer Guy » Sat May 22, 2010 12:01 am

I started going to Japan circa '83 on Int'l Biz, and their 're-use' of space in small Apts. [~20' x ~ 20' avg. in Tokyo] made quite an impression on me. I integrated some of these ideas into our nearly-completed Solar Home in W. CO, and will do so in my future CT build. Your Bed/Couch design is sharp thinking. Some ideas to ponder and tweak:

1. If it would work for you, flip your design 90 degrees to the driver's side wall. With the bed moved in the desired hitch or rear direction, it might be easier to integrate a Galley. You'd still sleep on the long axis of the Trailer. The couch would be on a side wall. The wall side of the bed could be longer than the side door side. Two 'single' mattresses side-by-side covered with memory foam [also shorter on one side] could be tweaked to fit. On the 'shorter' side door side, put galley 'things' you need to access more when the bed is down.

2. Implement some version of #1 above. One person shorter than ~5' 10" can sleep on the Tailer short axis.

3. In your concept, mount one side of the bed plywood to the wall in C channel steel. Hold it in place with a few holes through the steel and the bed plywood with nails or double-headed nails dropped in as retention pins. This nets you ~2' of clearance on the other side. Anyone sleeping on the wall mount side has to scootch out the foot end of the Bed. I've used 2" x 2" legs on hinges to support the non-wall side of a Murphy Bed.

If you didn't mind scootching out of bed at the foot end, you could mount C channel steel on both walls and slide in 6' wide plywood panels come bedtime. They would need only simple support underneath down the bed middle via ~3 hinged legs or some other method. The plywood couch back w/foam could Velcro against right angle steel or wood vertically-mounted back at a slight angle. Tuck the 3rd piece of plywood under the couch seat, per your concept.

Make lil wall-mounted fold up or fold down shelves on hinges to hold stuff bedside. On the wall side, put it about where the small of a person's back would be, a few feet above the bed. If it's mounted right and it's narrow enough, it won't get knocked into. Your head 'sits up' in the morning; your hips don't. A sturdy space blanket under the bottom sheet makes a bit a of noise when tossing about, but keeps ya really warm at lower temps.

Make a fold up/fold down Dinette Table the same way as these side shelves where a vertical piece of wood hinges out from the wall for shelf support, or a Velcro'ed leg hinges down. Install a sink where a matching, removable cutting board spans the sink and can't shift around.

In sound system construction, we used neato hinges where the top half has the hinge pin built in. One unlatches the doors to an ATA flight case with electronics inside, and lifts off the doors by separating multiple hinges vertically. These hinges used horizontally would let you 'disconnect' and store bedside shelves; a Dinette; or a cooking shelf outside.

4. You're well into the recycled space concept, so use it whenever you can. With quick disconnect fittings, move a 2 burner Coleman Stove out of the galley to sit on a flip up shelf, wall-mounted to the Trailer and using another Propane feed teed off the Tank [under an awning perhaps?]. Good for cooking freshly-caught crawdads in the rain. 5 gallon jerry cans weigh ~40 lbs. full and do double duty to strap awnings down to vertically in moderate wind.

5. Definitely consider a side door. Also, consider a fire escape; an openable, emergency window as in my '83 Avion trailer. Put Fire Extinguishers within reach. To paraphrase the bumper sticker, 'Guano Occurs'. If facing South, this clear window w/curtains or Astrofoil would also be great for passive solar heat gain. Use a combo CO2/Smoke Detector w/o fail.

6. Smart folks on this Forum have 'lockouts' on their door mechanisms to avoid being locked in by bored pinheads [another reason for an escape window and side door]. A pal has had his macho Trailer broken into twice for his Contractor 'stuff' inside. Thieves use diamond edged or other wheels on portable grinders to quickly cut through locks and stout door hardware. So, there's not necessarily security in those. Remove door hardware in favor of RV door locks, or build a sweet custom door as shown above.

7. Commercial Class C RVs bevel off one corner of queen beds to improve rear Bathroom access. Do the same if there's interference with your side door. Your feet won't notice.

8. Pre-run solar panel and other wiring. Or, run empty plastic conduit to retrofit wiring in. Velcro on your wall finish or nicely-stained 1 x ? at ~45 degrees where the ceiling meets the walls and hide wiring behind it. It also makes wiring retrofits easier. Live on +12 VDC whenever possible and skip inverter losses and cost. Wire for shore power, if you like, cuz it's cheap to do so up front. See my fav Sony radio here that can run off a multi-output +12 VDC adapter from Radio Schlock:

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-ICF-SW7600GR ... B00006IS4X

9. 'Little Buddy' Heaters can also hang off the wall, and work well. They have built-in O2 safety sensors good up to 9k' elevation so you won't wake up dead. They're relatively cheap at the end of the heating season.

10. Reheat food on metal camping plates and skip the microwave. Make pressed coffee.

11. Heat you never lose, you never have to replace by any means. Insulate, insulate, and then insulate. Save that propane. Dap brand 'non-expanding' foam fills the odd spots. Astrofoil installed over some sort of closed cell foam insulates well, and also acts as a vapor barrier while reflecting infrared [IR]. See the comments above about cold conducting in via the Trailer Frame.

http://www.astrofoil.net/

A couple of small, 'closeable' vents mounted low for cross ventilation will allow adjusting for cooler air input with a exhausting roof fan when it's warm, and will let in a smidge of air for any sort of heater, or when cooking.

Google in 'small houses' for kewl ideas on utilizing/recycling space, and also see some creative thinking here:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/06 ... camper.php

http://www.smallhousestyle.com/2010/05/ ... ace-saver/
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Postby Prem » Sat May 22, 2010 11:02 pm

Engineer Guy,

Yup...on everything except the radio. Why the Sony?

Do you already know about these? They're made by Sangean. Top quality stuff. (I own four different sizes, two w/ SW. One is 8 years old and I have used it every day since I got it.)

http://www.ccrane.com/radios/

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Postby Kixwy2 » Sat May 22, 2010 11:36 pm

We have a lot of the same ideas on versatility, E.G - Fortunately, it's not my first rodeo. I've been camping since I was 7. :) I've gotten a lot of my "car camping" pared down to two small Rubbermaid tubs, a stove and propane, blankets and my backpacking tent for shade storage of food and the cooler. However, the impetus for this project was spending a week in the High Desert of CA, followed shortly by the aforementioned Benton flood incident. I was in a friend's RV (for the first time *ever* not in a tent) and decided I liked something more substantial than nylon.

I may concede on the side door idea... but I'm going to frame it in myself in the location I want. I need it at least 36" from the trailer bulkhead for my ground plan to work. The reason I'm so set on the bed folding towards the bulkhead is because of the space I gain when the bed converts to the sofa. I get a 6' x 6' area of open space, and with one of the kitchen shelves folded down, an additional 2' x 4' square.

That's a huge amount of cargo space for hauling something else. Or I could run a small roller rink! :lol: Again, I may never need it, but I want to plan as if I will.

I haven't even shared my plans for infrastructure yet!



:lol:
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Sangean, Sony & High Deserts

Postby Engineer Guy » Sun May 23, 2010 12:15 am

Prem ~ A: Personal bias toward Sony, unsupported by objective info! ;-0 Sangean is a top brand, and enjoys deserved respect in the marketplace. I've had Sony stuff forever, and was impressed with the first Sony I bought years ago in Duty Free for little $ when flying out of The Netherlands. The cassette tape case-sized Receiver worked like a champ in world travels. It was nice to hear English via Shortwave when in Asia, etc.. Sangean comes in at a great performance/price point, too, with good Reviews. I'll never forget hearing the 'slow speed' O.J. Simpson freeway chase on the BBC with this Sony while in a rented RV on a blustery Scottish peninsula. Surreal.

As with regular buyers of Tide detergent, Goodyear Tires, Ford vs. Chevy fans, and most other 'brand' loyalties, we humans tend to go with what we know.

Lotsa Trailer afficianados [including me] do well with a Car Stereo/CD/MP3/DVD Player, because so many functions reside in one reasonable receiver space. I'll try connecting the Shortwave Sony Earphone jack to an Ipod input sometime. I like to listen to 'civilized' viewpoints from The World at night via Shortwave [or on this Laptop at home] while avoiding the sniping and snottiness infecting much of AM Radio. Plus, lil radios use negligible +12 VDC power.

http://www.tinyhousedesign.com/2010/05/ ... o-trailer/

http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm

http://www.marxrv.com/tech.htm

http://www.realgoods.com/category/solar+power.do

http://www.realgoods.com/category/campi ... camping.do

Kix ~ Your layout sounds great! It was self-evident this wasn't your first Rodeo ;-0 I looked at Haulmark a few days ago; nice units, of course. One fellow herein had the Manf. frame in his door just in front of the wheels to gain space and fit a Bath in the V Nose. Maybe they can customize for you economically if that's your preference.

When I was a wee bastid, I camped with Gramps around his then-VERY remote place outside of Coulterville, west of Yosemite. I liked the high desert so much growing up in SoCal, I put our new House on 80 acres of CO mesa top. It reminds me of the desert. This lengthy project involved SUV Camping -> borrowed Tent Trailer Camping -> Avion Trailer Residency -> [connection to AC Grid] Finished House -> Happy Wife. See our view while cooking in the Album pic 'Kitchen Window View South'.
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Postby Kixwy2 » Mon May 24, 2010 12:25 am

That's right - I remember reading someone had the door moved on a trailer they ordered... I may have to do a mock up of the bed design to be sure of the clearances I need. I'd like to have the door open to space rather than the corner of a bed with nine inches to spare. :lol:

There's all kinds of cool stuff I want to do with this trailer. I'd like to have solar power all my electrical needs, and use propane for cooking and heating. I already have a battery and inverter setup, which I can adapt to a trailer in seconds.

I've also been trolling the local camping stores and found an adapter kit for the Mr. Buddy heaters that allow it to hook up to a larger propane tank. I've got some water jerry cans that I'm planning to use for a self-contained sink system. (I do need to find a slick pump setup though.) At the moment, I haven't decided if a built-in shower is a priority or not. I do think a cassette toilet is a great way to go, assuming I can find one reasonably priced. I haven't seen an A/C unit I've liked enough yet to do a permanent install, so that may have to wait while I do some more research.

I'm planning to do some trailer shopping with a tape measure in the near future. There's a Carson Trailer dealer nearby, the AZ/Tex and Trailers Plus in Fontana, and even a Bass Pro Shop that sells Haulmark.

E.G. - your view is fantastic! And elbow room too! Question for you - are you still fabricating road cases for sound?
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Postby eamarquardt » Mon May 24, 2010 7:28 am

Shadow Catcher wrote:I am 5'16" and substantially sized....


I have a friend whose daughter is five foot thirteen. My son has a friend that is five foot twenty three and he's husky to boot! He has to duck to get through a door! I can't imagine any of you in a double bed with a "significant other". You might as well be in a sardene can! My wife is five foot two and my son, on a good day five five (but usually five four). Sometimes I envy them! On a recent flight I was cramped in my seat (I'm 5'10"), glanced over at Suzy and she had "room to spare". I wanted her seat as it was obviously "bigger" than mine! I found a solution though! Went to the doctor, to prepare for another flight (haven't left home much in 17 years or so due to health issues and making up a bit now but manage things differently) and asked for 6 vicodin. Got 30 plus 16 valium! On our latest flight, the plane cruised at 35K feet. I was 10K feet higher! Maybe the key to using a small bed is "better living through chemistry" as a friend says!

Cheers,

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