Just getting started, need to move into CT with pets

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

You'll probably find my project interesting when I begin a build thread.

Right now I'm forbidding myself from beginning a build thread until I can decide if it'll be a cargo trailer conversion, or custom from the wheels up.

Don't worry Chilly Willy
- there are folks here that spend 3 years deciding what trailer to buy - new or used ?
then even more time deciding what to build.......
One guy even spent what looked like 500 hours on his 3 D drawings - never saw his trailer.
Welcome aboard.

I wanna see what your Ice House trailer looks like.

Jerry

[jisincla]

ur not doing a good job listening !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I told you INSULATION INSULATION INSULATION .......

You totally zoned out & jumped straight into step # 2 ventilation , so your doomed before you start,
By your own doing & NOT LISTENING !!!!!

If your not gonna do the insulation right - then just forget the hell about ventilation.
HEAR ME NOW - BELIEVE ME LATTER !!

Cheers Jerry

Actually I have not jumped into either insulation or ventilation yet, but simply attempting to apply fumey wood sealer first so the other non-fumey things can be done with the cats inside. I did manage to apply a single coat of the stain/sealer to the walls, avoided getting any on the window, only fell onto my paint can once, and fortunately it did not tip over. In the process of running a paint roller over every inch of wall, I figured out the strips of plywood crossing over the walls should be taken off to get to the strips of wall behind them. I ascertained that the screws holding the walls on really are screws and not nails in disguise. I therefore realized that I can take the trailer home where I have help available from my housemate, stay in it with the cats in the driveway, remove one wall panel at a time, and apply fumey wood sealer to them on the front porch instead of inside the trailer. Then I can put the insulation panels behind the walls before I put the wall panels back in.

For ventilation, do holes need to be cut in the trailer? If so, does it matter whether ventilation holes are cut before insulation is put in, vs. putting in insulation first then cutting holes through it?

[jisincla]

Let's work with how the poster wants to do HIS trailer.
NOONE else has put the amount of money and insulation in a trailer like Over the Top has. But not everyone does everything the same way. That's okay.

Thank you.

Jim, both reasonable ventilation and insulation are important. The ventilation is necessary to remove moisture before it settles into your walls and molds. No matter how much insulation you have, moisture will create problems unless it is ventilated. All houses and living spaces have to deal with the balance of ventilation and insulation. A cargo trailer it is much smaller, so ventilation becomes even more important.

I understand that. I am aware that both ventilation and insulation are necessary. What I need to learn is HOW to achieve them, and in what order to do which things.

Could you post a picture of the window? Is the water in the frame of the window? Most windows have "weep holes" on the outside of the frame that drains any water. Looking at the outside of your window are there slots at the bottom? Are they clogged? Sometimes they mistakenly get sealed up. Or are the slots on the top of the window frame? If they are, your window was put in upside down.

Thank you for that too--you solved the mystery. Yes, there is a little slot to drain water. And it is not on the bottom where it needs to be, nor on the top, but on the side. Apparently my window is in sideways. It's a rectangle, I don't know the measurements. but it is installed with the longer sides vertical and the shorter sides horizontal because the ribs of the trailer are too close together for the window to fit between them with the long sides horizontal. Is there a way to make a drainage slot after the window is already installed, without taking it out again?

Is the water the result of collected moisture on the inside? Just breathing, one person puts out an amazing amount of water.[/quote]

[Rainier70]

I think best ventilation is a ceiling vent. And you can add a computer fan to it to assist. It is about a 14 x 14 inch hole cut in the ceiling between the ribs and then framed in with either metal or wood. A ceiling vent isn't heavy so a wood frame around the hole would be adequate. Usually do it before you insulate the ceiling.

The windows are your next best. If you can keep a window open some, it can do a pretty good job at venting.

Bummer on the window install. Drilling a couple of outside drain holes for your window should be possible. Have to look at it. The water is probably from the outside, but some could be from condensation inside too. Any moisture or rain hitting the window and running down is going to collect in the frame and then either overflow inside or outside.

[jisincla]

There is already a ceiling vent. Earlier in this thread you recommended that I get a vent cover for it so I can keep it open even when it's raining, and I asked my housemate to be on the lookout for those in the junkyards he frequents. Are the ceiling vent and the window enough? What about preparing for the possibility of needing to be in it during winter? As hot air rises, would it be preferable to have ventilation openings near the floor? Or is there a way to create heat pockets so the ceiling vent can let air through without also letting all the heat out of the trailer?

Further on the subject of ceiling vents, I tried to take mine out to straighten the metal arm that raises and lowers it, which is currently bent and keeps it from opening completely. I could not find a screwdriver bit that would work in those screws. Via Google I found a discussion somewhere (I don't remember where) in which someone else asked the same question about screwdrivers for ceiling vent screws, and was told a #2 square bit would work. Anyone know if that's the case? I don't have any square bits to try it.

I am almost certain the water in my window frame after the rain was from outside. I am not aware of any source of condensation from inside a currently empty trailer that has nothing producing heat or moisture inside. Possibly during the day heat might get trapped in it just because it's a big metal box sitting in the sun, and then some moisture might condense out of the air when the temperature goes down at night. But in that case I would expect to see fog or droplets *on* the inside window glass, not a dry clear window with water pooled inside the frame.

On the subject of my housemate and junkyards, I talked to him on the phone again this morning, and he told me he saw an RV in the junkyard that looked like it had a roof air conditioner on it. I asked him to go see if it's still there, and if so, how much they want for it, and if there is anything else in the RV he thinks I can use in my trailer. Would an RV air conditioner be a good thing?

Housemate also said he plans to move his cars around in the driveway so we can park the trailer all the way in back, where there are trees to shade it. Then for the rest of the summer it can be a big metal box sitting in the shade, instead of a big metal box sitting in the sun.

Jim

[Rainier70]

Ceiling vent and window should be plenty. Roof top ac is nice, but usually spendy. Depends on how hot it gets there. You will need insulation. I know you will be installing that later.

Yes, I would think that your window rim is filling from the outside. Would the place that you had install it be able to fix it for you? Such as drilling some weep holes without wrecking the window.

The vent screws might be torx or square drive.
Torx looks something like this:



Square drive may look square, or it may be doubled and look like a star. But it is sharper cornered than the torx.

[jisincla]

So if I've already got the ceiling vent and the window, I'm fine with ventilation? Last summer I had a box fan blowing out the open window, so outside air was pulled in through the ceiling vent.

How about in winter? What then?

Initially I thought the screws holding the vent were torx screws. But the T15 bit was too small and the 20 was too big. That's when I googled it and found a discussion somewhere that said trailer vent screws are double square and a #2 square bit will work. I can't see the screws well enough to count the points on them. They're too small. I don't have any square bits and did not find any square bits in my father's workshop. When I talked to my housemate this morning I forgot to ask him if he has any, but I expect he probably either has some or knows someone he could borrow them from. It's just a question of whether a #2 square bit is the right thing to ask to borrow.

My oldest cat, who's going to be 13 next month, just climbed onto my lap while I was typing this post. When we left home he was skin and bones, and my housemate and I both expected him to die soon. Now he is still too thin but has gained weight and is no longer gaunt. He has muscles again. His bones don't stick out anymore. His fur is softer. He's more active and he purrs more. He is not under any medical treatment for anything. He is still eating the same diet he was at home. The only thing that's changed for him is that he's been out of that house for two months. I can't take him back in there. We all need to be out of that house.

Jim

[Chilly Willy]

A rooftop ac is probably going to require reinforcement of the ceiling where it's mounted. Definately means cutting a hole in your roof. Also the matter of lifting it up and placing, mounting, sealing it up.

I've seen several threads in this forum detailing that project, make sure to invest time into fully researching before you cut.

What is your chosen heat source for the colder months?

[jisincla]

If we need to be in the trailer when it gets cold, I expect I'll use the electric space heater I used in the house last winter. I don't remember the manufacturer or model, and I'm still at my mom's house now so can't go check it. I do remember that when I bought it, I checked carefully to minimize fire and burned-cat hazards. It does not have exposed heating elements and it's supposed to be safe around children and pets, and has an auto-shutoff if it falls over. And it did a really good job of warming a single room that, before I turned on the space heater, was only about ten degrees (Fahrenheit) warmer than the outside temperature. It should easily heat a small trailer that will have insulation by then.

Does this have implications for ventilation?

[Rainier70]

I wouldn't worry too much about the ventilation. You will know if you need to exchange some air. Just watch for excess condensation on your windows. In the winter the cold outside air is naturally drier so a little exchange can make a difference. In the summer if you are in a really humid area and are having condensation problems even with venting, then you might look at using a dehumidifier. But those are all what-ifs, I wouldn't worry until you need to.

[Chilly Willy]

Sounds good. If the space heater can keep up during your coldest days then you're all set. I haven't had good luck with space heaters lasting more than one season though, so you may want to have a spare handy.

The reason I asked was some heat sources would require greater diligence with ventilation. Electric is the least concern, no CO emissions. I think if you're ventilating enough to compensate for people and animals expirated CO2 and aspirated O2 you'll be fine.

Fire detector, fire extinguisher, an air quality alarm ( CO2, gas, etc ), reliable emergency light that you can find in a blind dark, more than one exit. All things I would consider as mandatory. A cat sleeping in front of the space heater could rest it's tail up close, any long hair may reach an element, something about a hot tin roof, etc.

Also, if you would like some reading material, I found a message board that ski bums use to discuss sleeping in a car during the winter. You'll be facing similar challenges. Also most of them are working with a near zero budget, so some of the solutions they come up with are handy and affordable. http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/show ... the-winter

[warnmar10]

I wouldn't worry too much about the ventilation. ...

Let's see... In a small confined space, (the cubic volume of which minus creatures, bedding and possessions approaches that of a large refrigerator,) will reside at least one human, four cats, an aquarium? and up to 4 medium to large dogs.

I don't know how to score cats but med to large dogs can be counted as people for this calculation. The aquarium, who knows. But if we count 4 cats equal to one human and 4 dogs equal to 3 humans, that's an occupant load of 4 any way you slice it and we haven't allowed for any humans or a litter box yet.

For a healthy conventional home figure 7.5 cfm per person plus 3 cfm per 100 ft sq. In this case, 30-40 cfm should be adequate but that's an air change every 10 minutes or so which renders moot any amount of insulation.

[Chilly Willy]

I wouldn't worry too much about the ventilation. ...

Let's see... In a small confined space, (the cubic volume of which minus creatures, bedding and possessions approaches that of a large refrigerator,) will reside at least one human, four cats, an aquarium? and up to 4 medium to large dogs.

I don't know how to score cats but med to large dogs can be counted as people for this calculation. The aquarium, who knows. But if we count 4 cats equal to one human and 4 dogs equal to 3 humans, that's an occupant load of 4 any way you slice it and we haven't allowed for any humans or a litter box yet.

For a healthy conventional home figure 7.5 cfm per person plus 3 cfm per 100 ft sq. In this case, 30-40 cfm should be adequate but that's an air change every 10 minutes or so which renders moot any amount of insulation.

Hey, thanks for this. This was exactly the type of information I was hoping someone would contribute. Putting the insulation in to perspective is a cold reality slap.

[Rainier70]

I was also meaning don't worry too much about adding a lot more right now. He says he has windows and a vent. Yes, it will need air exchange and ventilation. Hopefully this isn't a permanent home, but with what he has it could work okay. If it is needed, more can be added later.

Jim, one thing I forgot to mention is looking at screening your door for this summer. Several on here have used the magnet catch "as seen on tv" type, or even some velcro and screen might work. You might do a search for some examples.

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

I wouldn't worry too much about the ventilation. ...

Let's see... In a small confined space, (the cubic volume of which minus creatures, bedding and possessions approaches that of a large refrigerator,)

For a healthy conventional home figure 7.5 cfm per person plus 3 cfm per 100 ft sq. In this case, 30-40 cfm should be adequate but that's an air change every 10 minutes or so which renders moot any amount of insulation.

This all is no problem if you foam the trailer, use a 12,000 Btu mini split & install a 2000 sq ft air to air heat exchanger, so about $10,000 but Noa - wanna build his Ark for $250 so it's not gonna work. Nobody listens to OTTCT who talked till he was blue in the face and has given up. My thanks to you warnmart10, Noa"s Ark will be built so we better get used to it. Worst case I might have missed a adding a dehumidifier for a standard size indoor pool.