Dual purpose new 7x14 project

[torrys]

Hey all,

great site and a wealth of ideas and information here, I've easily spent hours reading so many posts. Kudos to site admins for keeping this place running smoothly.
And thanks to all for posting what they have done with their Teardrops and CT conversions. I have learned so much

I bought new as I couldn't find what I was looking for in the condition I wanted so I ordered it up from my local supplier.
Just took delivery. it is going to be a hunting rig for a few weeks each season and am hopeful that if I can finish it well enough I'll be able to use it for camping.
Dual purpose for the ATV/UTV functional for hunting and comfortable enough for camping
Got a lot of ideas between my ears.
As I critique myself, I realize this is borderline with my own skill set but am confident if i take my time I can do this

7x14 Cargomate finished with a vent/window and a few lights.
Currently pulling off the paneling so i can insulate. I would like to spray foam but I am concerned about running wires afterward once the foam sets up. I have been told it can get pretty stiff. The consensus here seems to be using the polystyrene panels.

Anyone have any experience with the foam? Any negatives I don't know about?

thanks
Torry

[KyHardtimes]

I used 1" foam board from Lowes, 4' x 8' sheets. Worked very well for insulation and noise.
Good luck with your conversion.

[dustboy]

I think the spray foam (I assume you are talking about the stuff for insulating attics and walls, not the cans of expanding foam) would be the ultimate in terms of insulation value and stopping drafts. Why not just run all your wires in advance? Might have to plan everything out and run a few spares, like for that 12v ice maker you didn't know you needed

The plus side of the sheets is that they are cheap, easy to come by, and super easy to install.

Another item question that has popped up in this forum recently is the off-gassing of building materials, might want to check what long-term emissions the foam has; also you might make the rig so airtight that even low-level offgassing from other materials becomes a problem.

[torrys]

dustboy you bring up some good points, and yeah it would be the stuff sprayed by installers
I will have to check about the vapors from foam, I hadn't thought of that
Where I am located the big box stores only sell 2'x8' although i am sure i can find the larger sheets if i was to travel a bit.

One thing I noticed right away was that my wall studs are the "hat" variety which I am pretty sure will make fitting the sections "tightly" more work
and maybe not possible if there is no flex while install. If it was square I could see fitting them in easily. Maybe i would just have to do more pieces.
I found a guy willing to give a better price if I can travel to his jobsite and I would try to mask off as much as I can to minimize their setup time.
Still leaning that way but I will inquire about any vapor or noxious fumes. The R value is around 6 I believe for spray foam

After looking at it a few times I am sure that I will need to prewire as much as possible. Was out tonight to pick up some romex and got some parellel 12awg tomorrow
Also Very hard to find the shallow outlet boxes and I gotta get them in before spraying. Will look some more tomorrow

[torrys]

Things you find when you go a looking

I am very glad I didn't have the factory install the insulation, could just imagine what i'd get

So pulling off the plywood on the nose and i was just saying to myself.....sure wish I had a few extra screws.......and viola I remove the panel and what do I find
a handfull of screws, what luck.

After following a lot of other builds i was quick to check the fitment of the front floor with the nose

they had gobbed some silicone kinda on top but it can out with the plywood



and the other side as well had a big blast of silicone but a little wiggle and the entire piece popped out

got her all stripped and ready just as my wife came home.....honey didn't this trailer come with walls inside?....yes dear and you just pulled it all apart?..yes dear

I better do a good job



a bit of sloppy work right the front nose brace was almost falling off...gotta fix that....guess i am picky huh



Things that are hidden



Was happy to see the use of grommets through most of the wiring area



although pretty dissapointed with the install on the rear side markers





Put a big gob of silicone around the wiring and into the cutout to hold the wire in place

[torrys]

Also I am unsure about the factory wiring, the brake lights are probably fine but the front and rear markers I think are suspect.
They use a lot of those fold over splice connectors which i am not so sure I like. Also they use frame grounding as well.

The front clearance lights are going to be more difficult to get at as they are behind a little bulk head which looks like I would break, i was going to leave it as is.
but the rear came apart enough to be able to get at those lights. Would it be prudent to re-wire with both positive and negative wiring all the way to the back?
What are better options for wiring the top clearance lights as far as teeing off a main wire? will be using 12awg. Any suggestions?
Are good three way tees available?

Or should I just wrap 3m around em and insulate over to firm it all up and not be concerned?

Same for the factory ceiling lights, a few splice connectors and frame ground.





Guess I need to get busy with this wiring

[pbmazda32]

I recently pulled mine apart just like you are. I felt the same about the crimp on connectors and those fold over things. I went through and soldered and heat shrinked every connection. Call me old school but I also soldered all my 110v connections I added. Takes an extra minute or two per joint, but you never have to worry about hunting down and fixing a loose connection after its been soldered.
I don't know what kind of tools you have but I saw a nice little butane torch soldering kit at home depot for around $35. Good luck on your build.

[torrys]

I recently pulled mine apart just like you are. I felt the same about the crimp on connectors and those fold over things. I went through and soldered and heat shrinked every connection. Call me old school but I also soldered all my 110v connections I added. Takes an extra minute or two per joint, but you never have to worry about hunting down and fixing a loose connection after its been soldered.
I don't know what kind of tools you have but I saw a nice little butane torch soldering kit at home depot for around $35. Good luck on your build.

Hmm that is definitely something to think about, i was planning to use std crimp type with shrink tube, Did you rewire at all?


I am going to look today to see if i can find a pre-made three way crimp connector. If not I may need to go invest in some soldering equip. I want to redo those connections and I need to pull off a light to see how they grounded them.
Would this be the correct way to take a lead off the main wire to each of the top rear marker lights? Just wrap the whole thing in elec tape?


Also gonna go ty to find some shallow boxes for my future 120

[dustboy]

I agree with you all that the crimp connectors are acceptable at best, and the scotchlok (fold-over) are to be avoided. Strangely enough though, the electrical code does not allow soldering of high voltage wiring. Because solder melts at low temperature, in an overload situation you could end up with an open or short circuit. When it comes to 120v connections I would use only wire nuts or the UL approved quick connectors.

[daveyd007]

"honey didn't this trailer come with walls inside?....yes dear " Hahahaha! Too funny! I'm known to do the same with new toys!


should I just wrap 3m around em and insulate over to firm it all up? Yes, that's what I did to my cargo trailer. Rewiring is unnecessary as most of the wires will keep still when you put in new styrofoam panels.

[pbmazda32]

I rewired the entire trailer. All the running lights and brakes. Then I added 12v circuits for the various things I was adding in like exhaust fan, tv antenna, interior lights, etc. as long as you have a good secure connection, I don't think it matters how you run the wires. I re ran the existing wiring to clean up the crappy job the manufactur did and to minimize waste (trailer manufacturer has deeper pockets than me). Ended up with some extra wire the manufacturer wasted and saved me some money.

A cheap way to keep your connections from corroding down the road is to just put a little axle grease on them. Like on the spade connections on the lights and your ground points. it eliminates the powdery white crap at the connections like you sometimes see on a car battery. Then down the road when you have to do something to the light, it all comes apart easy and nothing needs redone.

As far as the soldering. I'm no expert on current electrical code, but electricity hasn't changed much. I'm also not aware of any electrical code that covers my trailer. My grandfather was an electrician his entire life and that's how he taught me to do it. If you have an overload situation that causes the solder to melt, your gonna have more problems than a open circuit. The only time I've ever seen that happen is from a lighting strike. You also have to keep in mind though, it's not a house, it's a trailer. It's an automotive application that will be subjected to vibration and corrosion house wiring will never have to deal with. To each their own, it's just my suggestion. It's how I did mine and I know I'll never have to take the walls apart to find a loose connection.

[torrys]

Amazing how many days and how much time a guy can waste chasin the dogs tail
Just when I thought i had the plan, I get pulled in a different direction. As you all know these designs are very fluid until they are final

I was looking everywhere and just couldn't find any good connections or alternatives for 3 way connections. I finally went with what I know, good crimped or soldered connection with some shrink tube to help insulate and give a little stress support.
I went looking everywhere i could think trying to find a shallow box for a receptacle that would be suitable for me. Hoping to find an exterior shallow also. Gotta be 1 3/8 for interior but I also wanted in plastic. I have found online but too long of a wait. Then someone suggested I ask the guys in my city who make those movie production trailers for the mobile movie sets. Apparently they make them where I live and I've been driving right past em.
I had also found a guy that would spray foam for $450.00 and had pretty much made up my wind to go that route.
The guys there were very helpful and while their trailers used wood studs the walls were a bit thicker so they had no issues needing shallow boxes. Then he went on to tell me that they did at one time and bought some "all in one" box/recepticle from pass/seymour that would work. Then told me who supplied them in the next community. Well low and behold the next day I have the ones I needed and am all set now to start wiring.

As I was leaving I noticed one of their trailers that they were building was foamed insulation. So being a bright guy I went back in and asked his opinion on the stuff. He told me that they like it, works good to get into all the nooks and crannies. Then his dad piped in about "oil canning" Apparently there is a good likeyhood the the hot foam when it hits the usually colder tin or alum tries to contract too quick and can cause a rippling or "oil canning" on the sides. They actually line the inside of their trailers with a very thin veneer up against the outside metal walls. When they spray it hits the veneer and not the metal. Hmmm I dont want to take that chance so off to the big box to pick up some extruded polystyrene.

Finally got around to actually doing work as opposed to shopping and ordering stuff.

I removed all scotch locks and replaced with scrimp, solder and shrink tube
I definitely feel better redoing them after seeing how little contact many of those scotch locks make






Prewiring for 120vac and 12vdc complete, it does look a mess and I will tidy it up before the insulation.
I also need to mark them all before covering it up.



This is where the converter and batteries will eventually go

The only grommets I could find were from that orange store and tbh were really crappy. Didn't want to stay in place.
I finally decided to some split loom to replace one and silicone on the rest to help em stay put. Should be OK and resistant to movement once it sets




Over by the switch plate I will have a future spot for exterior 120vac outlet. I have also taped in a loop, a piece of romex i will use when i can find a suitable weatherproof/shallow outlet box, just gotta remember that location measurement.



Just incase I want a future fantastic fan



Everything has gone slower than I'd hoped but I am making progress and now i go back to work but will be able to get on it next week, on days off.
Garage is getting pretty full now with all the tools and stuff I have picked up or had delivered. Must say tho that a lot of fast shippers out there.

Went with a Progressive Dynamics PD4045
Has a huge 45 amp output with 12 DC distribution, and a 7 branch AC although I will only be using 4 branches, 3 inside and the 4th for that exterior in planning




I cannot stress how much time, effort and changing and rethinking the whole design and electrical prewiring. I haven't camped in an RV type for years so it's tough to know what you will want and need and to know it all ahead of time for prewiring, dang I just remembered i didn't wire in an outlet up high for a DC TV. haha
I'll get it in tho, possibly think of something else as well. As I was wiring I am thinking that the 12awg was a waste and probably should went with 14awg for the loads, but it's pretty much all 12awg now except for the reading light and LED spotlights.

My propane heater arrived also, so i need to start thinking that one as well. I also bought 2 batteries from Costco 6 volt GC type. Hope their OK no idea what make they are. Also picked up my flooring, so yeah I better get that insulation installed and make some room to get to the deep freeze of momma gonna be after me

[torrys]

Well i have finally gotten some work done, funny how we can have this grand master schedule and only half will turn out the way we want. So many things and distractions come up during the course of everyday life. While I get excited and want to finish things and projects I constantly have to remind myself to enjoy everyday and to just go with the flow and all will work itself out, no need to rush anything.
Before I go off being philosophical I better get to the point;

Yup finally got some progress to report. The original plan was to go with a sprayed insulation but that was kiboshed by a trailer manufacturer telling me about oil canning effect. The insulation install wasn't too bad just a bit time consuming. With the Cargo Mate using these "hat type" channels for frame studs it made it where you couldn't just cut to fit tightly and press in place. Because of the curvature I had to cut em to size then slice them down the middle then slide the two pieces in and then wedge them together. Actually wasn't that bad just required more fiddling around. One the flip side it did present an opportunity to slice a thin strip and place in the center of the stud essentially filling it up so to speak, giving a slightly better insulating job than if I had not.



Before I could finish the insulation I had to deal with my "Window problem"
I had given no prior thought to window placement and the dealer suggestion was fine with me. When I brought the unit home and showed it to my wife (who is very short) we came to look at the the window and the bottom of the window was near her forehead and as she was jumping up to peak outside my "Window Problem" became apparent. So the only way I could figure this was to remove the window and I would have to eat some cost here and purchase another window, using the same dimensions but longer I would have to go with a 30x30. Hey I remember trying to be like Rifleman with Dad's old 30-30. You know the one handed load. The original window instal was quite nice I thought.



This is where i chickened out. i had removed the original window and had picked up a new old one(dusty and old stock) for $100 with full intention of cutting it larger and bracing in a new one. Even bought a HF sawzall and some new bosch blades for the jigsaw but the more I looked it over and pondered those goofy hat style studs and how was going to attach a frame to that and box the window, I thought it was quite likely that i could really mess this up. I hooked her up dragged down to an RV guy and had them install the new window with a welded in frame and while they were at it and since i had it all open, they installed the original window on the other side. I didn't like spending the money but I am glad it got done.




Insulation is in place and used a couple cans of crack filler foam to finish it off
Great Stuff does pretty much exactly what it claims and while useful it can be a bit messy and the cleanup is pretty hard.
There are quite a few spots that when it expanded, it got a little overzealous and around the window there was some residual. Hard to remove
once dry so use with caution and have a few rags handy. For the most part this stuff is best left to cure then slice off the excess rather than trying to wipe when gooey


The trailer side wall extended past the floor in a pocket so that gave me the opportunity to jam the insulation panels a good 4-6" past the floor where i could and then I used the great Stuff to seal the floor nicely



This is like a jigsaw puzzle getting the paneling all back in place because of course I didn't need to mark any but it was kinda fun. The 10 year old B&D cordless drill was good to me with all those screws.



But i forgot to install the shore power inlet, so I had an opportunity to use my new HF hole saw kit. Installed it without incident.
However i want to point out that I nearly poked a hole from the inside when I was drilling in the stud for my frame ground. I should have remembered to use a backing plate (or shorter drill bits) to absorb the hit when the drill broke free of the stud and nearly went thru You can see the dent outwards at about 10 oclock above the marinco



Primed and ready for a coat of stain.This will suffice for now, i may put some veneer over top of the paneling but for now it's stain. Will prob use tongue oil or something that will put a bit of protection on the ceiling



Have most my parts now just need to go pick up a little plywood and I can start on the fun stuff

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hi Torrys


I sorta did exactly what you did and had bad results with massive condensation & rust !!
Now i'm in California and its much warmer...so condensation - rust for you in BC would be worse.
if your only using trailer 1-2 weeks per year in the summer then don't worry...... but I'm looking at full time.
Currently i'm doing Version 2.0 of OTTCT....
if you want the best insulation then read what I'm doing.

almost done.JPG (113.87 KiB) Viewed 5737 times

Im on this form also !! and blog under




http://overthetopcargotrailer.blogspot.com/


Jerry

[torrys]

Hi Torrys

I sorta did exactly what you did and had bad results with massive condensation & rust !!
Now i'm in California and its much warmer...so condensation - rust for you in BC would be worse.
if your only using trailer 1-2 weeks per year in the summer then don't worry...... but I'm looking at full time.
Currently i'm doing Version 2.0 of OTTCT....
if you want the best insulation then read what I'm doing.

Jerry

Condensation? Rust?

i was under the impression that by insulating and paneling along with adequate ventilation, should be enough of a barrier against those evil things of which you speak?
What are we missing?
I will go and check what you are doing but that is not something I want to discover down the road