Different insulation types. What is best?

[CoventryKid]

Hello all:

Last time I asked some newbie questions, you guys were very helpful. I hope you can share some of your experiences re insulating a CT.

I am about to start working on my NEO 7x16 NAVR aluminum trailer. I plan to insulate the walls, floor, and ceiling. Corning pink rigid insulation has an R value of 5 per inch of foam. Plastispan EPS (the white stuff) is 3.75 per inch.

My trailer has 1" square aluminum ribs in the wall. If I use the cheaper EPS, will I really notice the 1.25 lower R value??

I plan to use 2x2s on the floor and fill the 1.5" space with rigid insulation. Again will I notice the 1.9 lower R value between the two if I use EPS??

Home Depot (Canada) lists Corning C300 1.5" x 2' x 8 panels at $25.03. Plastispan EPS is $9.86. Difference is $15.17 per sheet.

I would appreciate your advice. I am really wondering whether $15 for a 1.9 R value gain is really worth it. Especially when you factor in how many sheets, etc. for floor and walls.

Thanks in advance.

Doug

[lrrowe]

I am not an expert I this area. I too read many posts in this forum and also researched the web. For me, I added 1 1/2" in the walls and did not go higher then bc I did not want to give up interior width. I have a 6 x 14, so that was important to me. You did not mention where you plan on using your CT. Here in the Mid eastern states, we do not see as much of the lower temps as do our friends from the West and SW areas do.

I also insulated the floor using 1 1/2" pink foam and the sleeper concept you are looking at. For my ceiling, I will add 4 inches of denium insulation as did Jerry with his OTTCT. Then I will add 1/2" of rigid insulation to hold it all in.

See my photos in viewtopic.php?f=42&t=61777#p1104507

[CoventryKid]

Hi lrrowe:

I have been following your build - you're doing a great job! That was smart thinking to raise the side door! I actually had a custom trailer on order from NEO before I had to buy one off the lot (whole 'nother story!). But I hadn't even thought of raising the door to compensate for the raised floor! Congrats on that!

In general, my wife and I want to use our CT to tour around Canada and the US for a while. Being Canucks, we are wintering on Vancouver Island in British Columbia. I hope to get most of the conversion work done here in the next 3-4 months.

The overall plan is to stay away, as much as possible, from the temperature extremes - no cold/snow in winter, and no major heat in summer. Or in other words, Canada and northern US for the summer, southern US, maybe Mexico for the winter......we'll see.

Doug

[MtnDon]

If you just have one inch of foam in the walls, you probably will not notice any difference between the two R-ratings, especially if you have a single pane window or two in the walls. If you have thicker insulation then the difference may ery well be noticed. We have 2 to 3 1/2 inches in our CT walls and ceiling, 2 inches in most of the floor. I am a big fan of installing an inner layer over the steel ribs to help cut down on the thermal bridging.

As for running 2x2 or whatever sleepers in the floor, IMO that is mostly unnecessary. The common blue and pink rigid foam sheets have a compression strength of 15 PSI. A square foot of foam can support a weight of over a ton. You can cover the entire floor with the foam sheets and then lay your plywood over that. Use long screws to pass through the foam to whatever structure it can be anchored to. That is what we did; self drilling screws thru the foam into the steel frame. I said mostly unnecessary... if you needed to anchor something to the floor, sleepers might make it a more secure mount if the screws could tap into 2x2's instead of just the plywood floor. Depends on the load and thickness of plywood.

Oh, maybe important, maybe not... The white "beadboard" foam (EPS) is the least resistant to water of all the foam types. There are different densities and the cheaper big box store stuff is often the least dense, the most permeable. That's one reason it is so much cheaper. XPS foam (pink and blue foams) are rated semi-impermeable in 2 inch thickness and greater.

[lrrowe]

I wish I knew about the possibility of not using sleepers. It sure would have simplied my work. Aw well, it is done now.

[lrrowe]

CoventryKid,

Congratulations on your NEO trailer. I had selected them as my choice a while back and stated to trade emails back and forth. But once they heard that I was going to convert it to a sleeper, they backed off and said,they cannot sell to me, that the liabilities were too high. I posted this occurrence awhile back. Now I know I could say to heck with them, as what I do to my trailer is my business. But I did not like the,way they handled me, so I walked away.

I sure did like their product though. I sure am going to hate it every time you post the good things about their trailer. We need some pictures of it.

[warnmar10]

... I am a big fan of installing an inner layer over the steel ribs to help cut down on the thermal bridging.
...
As for running 2x2 or whatever sleepers in the floor, IMO that is mostly unnecessary. ...

Hurrumph!

[CoventryKid]

MtnDon - thanks!

I knew I shouldn't have read your post to my wife....I said I thought I would still use 2x2s on the floor and she asked why? "We don't need the extra weight...." Oops, couldn't argue with that!

lrrowe - I feel for you, but like you said the floor is done now. And I remember your post re the "problems" with NEO. Fortunately for me, I was dealing with a dealer. I had originally ordered a trailer with the NXP latch on the back ramp, and a few other nice-to-have options from their Nova Scotia dealer. But we sold our house in Nova Scotia very quickly and couldn't afford to wait for the trailer, so I ended up buying a very similar NEO trailer from NEO's New Brunswick dealer.

I really like the NEO trailer - weighed it after we arrived back on the west coast - 1870 lbs empty. That's for a 7x16x7 (interior height) trailer with ramp. I thought that was pretty good and was exactly what I wanted weight-wise. I'm towing it with a GMC Savana hightop conversion van - max towing weight: 6,000 lbs. So keeping it light is top priority.

I have to investigate how to post pictures here but will post a couple shortly. When I get going on the build, I will start a new thread with an appropriate name. But I plan to pinch a lot of the great ideas on this forum. What a great bunch. I hope I can add something of my own to the great information found here.

More later....Doug

[CoventryKid]

Finally figured out how to post pictures, so here is one taken in New Brunswick on our cross-Canada trip back in Sept/2014:



The trailer doesn't look all that large from the front but when you view it from behind:



you get an idea of its real size.

Anyway that's what I will soon be working on, in a new topic.

Getting back to my insulation question, I am going to use 1" rigid pink insulation in the walls between the 1" ribs and 2" pink insulation on the floor (no sleepers - tks, MtnDon!). I'm also thinking about adding 1/2" plywood strips, 2-3" wide, onto of each vertical rib, then adding 1/2" pink foam between the strips. That will give me a little extra insulation and also a thermal break between the aluminum ribs and the interior.

I hope to get started sometime next week - pulling off the plywood and adding the insulation. Fortunately for me, NEO uses real self-tapping screws to attach the interior plywood unlike some other builders who use screw-like nails.

Thanks everyone for the advice. This IS a great forum with great people with great ideas!!

[warnmar10]

...

Getting back to my insulation question, I am going to use 1" rigid pink insulation in the walls between the 1" ribs and 2" pink insulation on the floor (no sleepers - tks, MtnDon!). I'm also thinking about adding 1/2" plywood strips, 2-3" wide, onto of each vertical rib, then adding 1/2" pink foam between the strips. That will give me a little extra insulation and also a thermal break between the aluminum ribs and the interior.
...

Why not run the 1/2 pink over the aluminum ribs and just skip the 2-3" wide plywood strips?

IMMHO, your rig needs an equalizing hitch, but that's me.

[CoventryKid]

Warnmar10: If I do as you suggest, then the screws attaching the plywood to the ribs would stiĺl be thermally connected. As I have read here, the screw heads then could "sweat" or freeze, etc. depending upon inside/outside temperature difference.
However, if I attach plywood strips to the ribs, then attach the interior plywood to the strips (not the ribs), there will be a thermal break. From reading and re-reading this forum, that is best.

Weight distribution hitch was installed for the trip.

[warnmar10]

Warnmar10: If I do as you suggest, then the screws attaching the plywood to the ribs would stiĺl be thermally connected. As I have read here, the screw heads then could "sweat" or freeze, etc. depending upon inside/outside temperature difference.
However, if I attach plywood strips to the ribs, then attach the interior plywood to the strips (not the ribs), there will be a thermal break. From reading and re-reading this forum, that is best.

Weight distribution hitch was installed for the trip.

I guess I don't fully appreciate the extreme cold you have to deal with in the Great White North.

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Nice trailer
Never knew you could pull that with a van
A 16' always looks good because it's same size as the TV

MtnDon

When are we all gonna get some data on your heating requirements.
You are the only one who has mega insulation & freezing weather .......
Waiting on your data - would expect 300- 500 watts to keep you toasty warm at ZERO DEG F
With mine I don't need any heat at 32 - but it's not getting colder here

OTTCT

[CoventryKid]

Warnmar10: Actually where we are on Vancouver Island, it's actually the great GREEN north. The lower mainland of BC (Vancouver area) and southern Vancouver Island rarely have extremes of temperatures or snow, but it does happen. More it's milder temps and rain/drizzle. Can and does get a lot of people down, but you very rarely have to shovel it!

My point with the insulation is to reduce the chances of problems with condensation as described elsewhere in this forum. I'd rather err on the side of doing too much, than find later I didn't do enough.

This is all new to me, so I read and re-read posts pertaining to everything re tricking out a CT.

[Prem]

OTTCT,

Not getting colder in San Jose? Of course not. The "Pineapple Express" has arrived. It's blown in to CA and southern OR from way south of the Hawaiian Islands. It was 65 degrees here all day. Zucchini and watermelons have sprouted in the garden. Santa is wearing shorts at the mall. I blame Al Gore.