First Build: No Exp, No Money, LOTS of Questions & Planning!

[Papergazer]

Hello everyone!

I have been dreaming of a tiny travel trailer for many years now, and I've decided that I'm going to start making some progress with it instead of it just being a dream.
I have no building experience whatsoever and not a lot of money, but I do have determination and ingenuity, and I like the idea of the challenge.

I live on Vancouver Island, which has excellent camping/travel opportunities but lots of rain, and I'm getting tired of tent camping. I plan to use my tear drop to travel around the Island in, possibly spending an entire summer (May-Sept) living in it. It has to be light enough to tow with a car. I would like it to be high quality build with a creative exterior...a conversation piece if you will. I'm thinking hybrid teardrop/gypsy vardo. My intention is to make it a work of art, in a sense, something that draws a bit of attention and will make a name for itself. The reason I would like to do this is to add value to it, with the intention that I will sell it later for a fair profit...maybe to fund some materials and supplies for a future tiny house build or small living space.

One great resource that I do have is that my husband works in the demolition industry, so I can find salvaged building materials pretty easily. I am open to buying what is necessary to finish the project, but will build whatever I can with salvage. I have a few tools of my own, and I have a friends shop that I can borrow or hire him for $20/hr if I need access to big tools, but I plan on doing most of the work myself in my back yard.

I'm currently creating the design in Sketchup, and will probably start building next year sometime. I'll post some shots from Sketchup once I've got the basic design done.

One big question that I had about teardrops was that I noticed that none of them have roof overhang? Is this for aerodynamic reasons? or aesthetic? I had originally thought that I would do a roof overhang for aesthetic purposes, but I have yet to see a teardrop with any kind of roof overhang.

I was also thinking of doing 1x2 framing with 3/4" plywood walls...can I get away with 1/2" plywood walls or would they require to have less flexibilty? It will be insulated with rigid foam insulation.

Provided that my trailer allows for it I would like to build up the platform so there is some floor storage and so that the doors sit above the fenders...I'm planning on double doors that I can open wide on a sunny day.

Any advice would be helpful! Great to be here and looking forward to being part of the community!

[Pmullen503]

1/4" or even 1/8" plywood on both sides of 1x2 framing with insulation will be adequate and lighter than 3/4" plywood. Also if you plan to have any curves it will be much easier to bend.

Under floor storage will cut your head room and will be inconvenient to access when the bed is down. Ceiling mounted cabinets along the sides might be better.

Building models from cardboard will help you visualize and can help with figuring out construction details.

[Larry8]

Welcome and awesome to be in the dreaming/planning stage. Once you find a profile that you like, I highly recommend getting a cheap piece of plywood and layout a full size template. The template is used to layout your bulk heads, galley, and trace out your wall shape. I'm a couple of months into a build and I went with the stick frame insulated walls. They turned out relatively light and strong compared to solid 3/4 inch plywood. Mine are 1.25 inches thick 1/4 ply//3/4 inch sticks and insulation//1/4 inch ply.

All the best,

Larry

[Papergazer]

A little more progress and a lot of new changes...

My guy says that there are plenty of materials that would be suitable for my project from his work sites. Here's a list of what he said is available:
- 2x4 in any length, wood or steel (wood could be ripped down to 1x2, steel would be durable but maybe too heavy????)
- insulation - pink insulation or ducting insulation (not sure of the r-value on the ducting insulation...likely R-6 from what I can tell from Google). Still need to learn about r-values and whether that will be adequate.
- slight possibility of rigid foam insulation depending on the job...this would be preferred.
- plywood, many thicknesses and sizes. Lots of full sheets available.
- 1/8" panelling, either plastic, composite or wood, depending on the job site.
- shelving and cabinetry.

- Husband's co-worker learned about my project and offered to drop off materials at our house with his truck.
- I had a friend donate a circular saw, so now I have that and a cordless drill with two batteries and lots of hand tools, squares, hammers etc to get started.
- I have an old Chevy Malibu that a relative gave to me when she moved out of province and I'm going to either trade it for a 5x8 utility trailer or sell it and use the money for a 5x8 trailer.

New plans:
- use the trailer as an art/writing studio, and also as a summer home so now plan to build something more along the lines of a gypy vardo rather than a teardrop, with enough room to stand and some more amenities.
- build a porch/outdoor shower area on the drop down ramp and install a portable tankless hot water heater (nice hot showers are really important!)
- build the bed area out a foot on each side over the trailer frame so that the bed is perpendicular to the trailer.
- install a composting toilet and indoor/outdoor kitchen area.
- The summer home area on my friend's property has water/electric hookup, so it will be more like a mini home.

Thanks for the suggestions so far! So now I'm considering doing a 1x2 construction with 1/4" ply on the outside and 1/8 on the interior. I am also really intruiged by some of the fiberglass reinforced models I've seen others do and may incorporate that into my model. I used to build fiberglass boats about 10 years ago, so I know how to work with the material and I know how strong and durable it is. We'll see...depends on what I decide for the exterior look.

I have always been intrigued by copper roofing, and my ideal gypsy vardo would have copper shingles.I am a printmaker and I do copperplate etchings, so I have access to a lot of copper sheeting. The reason for wanting copper shingles is that I have a lot of smaller plates of copper sheeting that could be bent into shingles. I just have no idea how to make copper shingles, and even less idea on how to install them, and there is very little information online. Copper is also expensive too, so I would want to make sure I was doing it correctly and not take a chance on using all that material only to end up with a leaky roof. I know to how to install cedar shingles, but I think the process is a little different, and cedar is far too clunky for the look I am going for.

So all these changes mean that I have to now start from scratch with my sketchup model as that was for a teardrop rather than a vardo.

[bam1028]

Copper would be very cool especially after the patina happens!

[Andrew Herrick]

There is SO MUCH excellent information about building teardrops out there! And it sounds like you've already done lots of research. Excited to see what you come up with!

Allow me to interject one tiny bit of advice. When I built my first camper, I was determined to set a price first ($$$$) and then build a camper to that price. I have since realized, quite frankly, that I was dumb You have an extremely audacious first build for a camper, if you don't mind me saying so, and I suspect your Sketchup model won't look quite the same as your finished product :p So don't be afraid to go slow! Measure twice, cut once and all that.

If you're planning a little studio camper, I highly recommend you build on a 6x10 steel welded utility trailer than than a 5x8 kit, or, even worse, a 4x8 HF trailer. I would NOT build on a cantilevered floor (where the floor extends wider than the frame. LOTS of room for major error!) Your eyes might pop when you see the cost for a 6x10 trailer, especially if you go custom, but for what you need, not only is it worth it - it's almost essential. Just my $0.02.

[bam1028]

"If you're planning a little studio camper, I highly recommend you build on a 6x10 steel welded utility trailer than than a 5x8 kit, or, even worse, a 4x8 HF trailer" That's not bad advice but doesn't it go against the "no money" part. Also aren't you selling a camper that is built on the hf trailer?

[Andrew Herrick]

"If you're planning a little studio camper, I highly recommend you build on a 6x10 steel welded utility trailer than than a 5x8 kit, or, even worse, a 4x8 HF trailer" That's not bad advice but doesn't it go against the "no money" part. Also aren't you selling a camper that is built on the hf trailer?

Ah ha! Caught red-handed! :razz: Yes, I've got a little 800-lb camper on sale built on a HF chassis. 'Twas good to start off with, but almost all future models will be built on custom steel trailers. I've got a few going right now.

My main concern is that if she's wanting a studio camper, with a kitchenette, bathroom, standing room, propane tank, water tanks and all the other amenities, that's probably going to weigh close to the 1,700-lb capacity of a Super Heavy-Duty HF trailer, especially when filled with stuff. I've got nothing against kit trailers for small builds, but not for anything that big! It's just not safe, you know? A steel trailer is more expensive, sure, but the trailer is the last place you want to skimp - speaking from experience!

[bam1028]

Dont diagree just had to bust your chops! And im gonna stop so i dont hijack thread. Good luck with the build papergazer

[lgatlin]

Well, I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with! You're a dreamer after my own style -- my vardo is a pretty crazy over the top creation. And I'm going the opposite direction - we are now starting our second build - a lightweight teardrop that we can pull with our Corolla. I second the idea that pmullen503 put forward: build a small model out of cardboard. We did that, and it helped enormously. We built it to scale (1"=1') so we could measure off it. We made changes, but having the basic shape set helped a lot. lots of construction pictures here on my picture storage site http://coolclevername.weebly.com/ if you're interested in seeing some progress shots on our vardo - our build log is down below (our first build - a vardo) http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=63977.

[Papergazer]

lgatlin! What a coincidence! I just spent the better part of last night reading through your build journal and your blog and I am definitely inspired! I love all the hand painting and lovely details that you put into your build and would love to do something similar.
Also funny, I currently have a Corolla too, and while a light weight tear drop would be lovely, my Corolla is over 20 years old and I don't think it could even pull a Radio Flyer. So, rather than build to suit my current vehicle, I am planning on building a little bigger and the vardo will sit in my back yard for the most part, and then get moved once into the backwood setting come summer time...that is, probably summer after next, once I spend this upcoming summer building it!
Did you find the gesso roof saved a lot on weight? I don't know how well that would hold up in the rain out here, it is as waterproof as fiberglass? I'm thinking fiberglass would be the way to go...or that copper roof if I can figure it out.

I've started making my model in Sketchup. I will post in the next day or so once I get the general shape/layout done. I'm still trying to decide where to place the commode. Maybe I will make a cardboard model too once I get it roughed out.

Andrew, thanks for the consideration about weight, but I think my build is a little less ambitious than you might think; I won't have a refrigerator, water tank or a bathroom really. For the bathroom there will be a little cupboard for a composting toilet and an outdoor shower with a tankless propane hot water heater. For the kitchenette, an electric cooler rather than a fridge, and a small propane cook top. If I can hook up directly to water where it will be parked, I don't really require any water tanks...grey water can drain into the forest out back and with the composting toilet there will be no need for black water. The idea is to use the fold down ramp as a shower area with a privacy curtain up so I can shower outside; the tankless heater I have in mind comes with a shower head too.
This is the style of trailer I am interested in getting: https://www.lowes.ca/trailers/carry-on- ... 00386.html
I think I should be able to build what I need without going over the 1650lb capacity. The only thing that will add weight to the trailer will be the extra wall height.

[KCStudly]

With all of those features, you might be surprised at how quickly you can exceed your weight goal! It has been done even in a Benroy sized TD!

Everything, every little thing adds up and the only way to make them come in lighter than expected is to leave stuff out and/or go lighter than you think on every single thing.

The strength comes from the unity of construction, not each part. Build like an airplane, not a tank, not a house; yada, yada.

You have been warned.

Honestly, none of this is meant to discourage. It's just that we have been around here for a while now and have seen the successes and "didn't quite come out like I expected" (failures?) of many people, all with good intentions.

Study the build threads. Look at Sharon's list of completed camper weights. Even though there aren't very many (any?) vardos on the list, you can look at the builds that are close to the size you intended to build, see what features they added, look at the construction methods they used, and then decide if your intended approach seems reasonable.

With no budget and no experience you can't really afford to get it wrong.

[lgatlin]

Did you find the gesso roof saved a lot on weight? I don't know how well that would hold up in the rain out here, it is as waterproof as fiberglass? I'm thinking fiberglass would be the way to go...or that copper roof if I can figure it out.

The roof was a first for us, but I am really super impressed with the sturdiness, and the water-tightness of it. I'd totally do it again. We had originally planned on a metal roof but read about the PMF (poor man's fiberglass) process and decided to give it a go. 5 layers of exterior paint, and it feels stiff and rubber-like. water just rolls off it.

I'm going to second what KC says above. If I were to do this over again - and I probably will, I have several improvements I'd make-- I would have gone with a slightly heavier duty trailer. We built this vardo as a spec project - always thinking that if we didn't want to keep it, we'd sell it. If we did start over, here are a few things I'd like that we didn't include in this first one:

1. a bathroom with a shower
2. the ability to leave the bed out all the time
3. double axle trailer
4. vertical walls (ours are at a 7 degree slant, i'd love them to be truly vertical.

I really do like ours and it's very functional, so the above is more a wish list for a new, bigger build, which I don't see us doing in the near future. We're more impetuous, and not one to plan out for ages, so we give up some of the benefits that planning well offer. That being said, there's a lot of things I like that we did - I feel that the roof was a really good move, our wall insulation feels very good, it's fairly well-balanced and it tows well. The swing out level jacks on all 4 corners are awesome and give us total stability. So for the next one, we'll bring those ideas forward as we plan a new build.

[Papergazer]

Ultimately my build will be based on what type of trailer I am able to acquire. Harbour Freights aren't really readily available here in Canada, so there aren't too many of them on the resale market. I see a lot of those 5x8 trailers with the fold down ramp, so that would be ideal. I see they also come in 6x10 too, so maybe that would be an option. Depends on what is available for my price point. I think I can get about $1000 for my Chevy Malibu, and I have a friend interested in buying it, so that's how I will acquire the trailer.
I will definitely take the payload into consideration when building. The trailer that I posted before is actually not ideal, as it doesn't have any room to build a tongue box. Here's one that's better and has a 2352# payload.http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/produc ... _vc=IOPDP1 It's 2 feet longer than I really require, but who doesn't need extra space? Buying brand new is a little out of my price range, but maybe something similar will come up second hand. In the meantime, I plan.
I have looked more into the PMF, and I think that will probably be what I decide for a finish...I can maybe even paint it a copper colour to mimic my copper shingle roof idea. There is a great instructable on PMF that explains how the weatherproofing works and it seems like a good option for the Wet Coast weather. http://www.instructables.com/id/Poor-Ma ... /?ALLSTEPS

Hubby has access to ducting insulation at work, and I'm wondering now if that's a viable option for insulation or if I should hold out for some rigid foam? From what I can tell the ducting insulation is between R-5-R6 depending on what brand it is.

[KCStudly]

Ducting insulation is usually polysio(xxxx, I forget the rest), the yellow crumbly kind and is not a good choice. (I've also seen the aluminized bubble wrap, or plastic sheet/glass fiber filled kind; neither of which would be appropriate.)

For foamies the work-ability is just as important as the R-value. We have to be able to cut, shape, bend, and glue it, so XPS (extruded polystyrene, the blue or pink board) or EPS (expanded polystyrene, the white beads) is preferred.