new "sock" approach?

[IFDRizz]

First of all, Hi! I'm Rizz, a firefighter in Indianapolis who is going to be attempting his first build, and you guessed it....it's going to be a foamie. I am extremely happy that I stumbled upon this site, and especially the foamie section. The amount of information here is astounding (some pronounce it "overwhelming").

Just some background. I am a single father of 2 kids (6 and 7) that I have most of the time. Now that they are both in school I decided to start a small woodworking/furniture making business, as a part time job/hobby. I also sometimes work with GFRC (glass fiber reinforced concrete, which allows for thin/light/strong concrete...and many of the properties are relevant here...here is a link to a 1 min video to give you an idea if you've never seen this http://youtu.be/YPfWTybodB8), and have made several large furniture molds out of foam. This plays right into the "thrifty" aspect, since I have quite a bit of material that could be re-purposed. I just recently sold my Acura and bought an old Cherokee along with a harbor freight trailer (from now on known as my "truck"), and thought I had come up with the brilliant (and what I thought was "original") idea of building a removable camper that could be attached to my trail...sorry, "truck", when I wanted to take the kids camping (or attend one of the many firefighter/EMS camping gatherings). This is how I stumbled upon you guys.

Ok, now that THAT is out of the way, I have a couple questions/concerns/ideas that I would like to discuss or get insights on.


-I have 4 or 5 sheets of 1/8th inch maple plywood, so I intend on using this for the interior, along with the canvas/TBII on the exterior. I plan on attaching these before assembly, then assembling the prefab units. Then doing a second canvas layer over everything tying all the pieces together as a single unit ( making the famous "sock").. My thought was to wrap each foam panel entirely with the canvas (sock), and then glue my plywood to the dried and cured canvas as opposed to the foam. Seems to me that the sock affect around each panel would create more strength and a better bond for both the canvas, and the plywood (since the plywood will be glued to the canvas as opposed to the foam).

- This camper has to be removable, and I haven't seen any that were built like that. Seems like it would be simple enough to build it so that it bolts and unbolts relatively easily. Thoughts?

- I plan on priming and painting like normal, but then I am going to plastidip it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... dCtzxkER7k). I helped do this on a buddies car and was skeptical, but over a year later it still looks brand new. This way I can repaint it for our Fire dept "party" trips, then back to a more family oriented paint scheme when I go back to "Dad" mode.

Ok...apparently they want me to stop thinking about building foamies, and focus on HAZMAT training. Wonder if I can convince them that many of my experiments with foam have in fact led to some HAZMAT incidents?

[GPW]

WELCOME Aboard !!! Socks are Good !!! Sounds like a plan !!!

[kudzu]

Welcome! That GFRC is interesting stuff.

Have not started my build yet. My building experience is limited to dog houses, fences, goat shed & modular barn so clearly I don't know much. Have no answers for you only random thoughts & more questions:

If you are double canvasing then you are adding extra glue & canvas. Might want to calculate the added weight. If you plan on this being removable do you really want to add that weight? Would double layers give you double the possible areas for adhesion failures?

Before acquiring my own trailer I had explored the idea of doing something similar to your removable camper idea. My BIL agreed to letting me borrow his utility trailer sometimes. My plan was to build a removable, bolt on camper. Acquiring my own trailer stopped those plans. However, the idea isn't unique.

Micro-lite builds the Wazat camping pod that can be removed from it's trailer base.
http://microlitetrailer.com/MLThome5.htm


Here is a thread on something that's probably more like you propose. I could easily seeing this done as a foamie.
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=31995




Again, welcome. I look forward to seeing your idea take shape. BIL's trailer is still sitting idle in their driveway & they don't have a camper of their own so maybe someday we'll build something for them. After I finish my porch & then my own camper....

[IFDRizz]

Thank you for those pics, they gave me a great idea for making a lift system.

as far as weight, you bring up a good point. I'm not sure how much it will add. Doesn't seem like it would be much, depending on the weight of the canvas. Definitely something for me to look into and consider.

As far as "double the adhesion" issues, my thought is (hopefully I can explain it) --For this example, picture one of the sides. I would glue and wrap it in canvas starting at the top edge along a corner, pulling it tight and stretching it, eventually coming back to the starting edge, then overlapping it on itself along that edge. As it dries it shrinks up a little. The canvas sticks exceptionally well to itself, allowing it to pull tight and creating a sturdy ""sock". It also (in my head anyway) creates better gluing surfaces since the edges will be covered in canvas so instead of foam on foam, it will be canvas on canvas.


and I ran across those little campers when I first started researching.... imagine my surprise when I came up with my brilliant idea of a removable camper, only to find out that it's already a thing. lol Story of my life.

[IFDRizz]

WELCOME Aboard !!! Socks are Good !!! Sounds like a plan !!!

thank you!

and I think socks ARE good! In fact, my concern with adhesion at the corners is what led me to think that if I wrapped it and overlapped (overlapping along an edge being key), that it would make an exceptionable strong "prefab panel", that would be easier to glue up with other panels (due to the canvas on the edges as opposed to foam on foam).

[Mary C]

Welcome!! I am Mary the owner of Grits. ok two questions I suggest you try a little foam with some TBII and a piece of canvas. after letting it dry check it out the strength is undeniable strong and hard . I suggest you do this so you can see what it is you might want to re think the whole thing. Now as far as the sock thing I have tucked the canvas under about a foot. My friends will help me to take the "box" off and I will put another piece of canvas under it in the future. With help I could take it off but we will talk about that later in my build. I have put straps into my build so that I can take it off in the future. The straps are what holds it to the trailer. I have a place for 6 -8 screws that can be put in also. I will have the sock effect and believe me 7 - 8 # canvas soaked with TBII is enough. I know that it sounds too good to be true but try it first. Good luck,
Remember we here on the foamie section are addicted to . We gotta have them.


Mary C.

[KCStudly]

My experience on TPCE so far suggests that using canvas under the ply would be wasting materials, time, and money, while adding weight.

My 5mm ply (about 3/16 thk) stuck well enough to the foam using 3M green adhesive, but if I was to do it again I would use TB2 rolled on. You just need to experiment a little to get the right base coat so that the moisture in the glue dries up into the plywood and does not pool up... some people have had problems with the glue not drying well (or at all). What ever you do it is critical to get a good even press all over the surface. Consider using a vacuum bag technique (...or even an old waterbed mattress... just lay her out and fill her up? ) I have had mixed results just using random weights, and I think that this is even more critical for thinner plys (the thicker plys distribute the weight better whereas the thinner plys flex and the temporary weights or clamps are only effective locally is my theory ).

There are many threads where people have asked about making a removable cabin for a dual purpose trailer (I, too, considered this, and looked at a Wazat) but in the end most come to realize that it is not as easy as it sounds, compromises must be made, and the practicality of doing the swap to run a simple little errand with the utility trailer just becomes a major deal-e-o, not worth the hassle. $.02

Welcome, and good luck on your build!

[Bogo]

When doing a composite canvas surface, it isn't the weight of the canvas that gets ya. It's the weight of the glue. It is a similar issue to epoxy in fiberglass. The fibers are what gives the strength. The glue or epoxy binds them together so they don't move in relationship to each other and the rest of the structure. They also help protect the fibers from damage.

[josephhanson]

I used PL glue to glue the foam and plywood together and it adheres great. Once the sides and top are all attached the outer canvas will definitely hold everything together. I like the idea of a removable "pod" and was thinking along those lines for a camper for my daughter. What were you planning for a floor to tie the walls together?
PM me if you would like to see a finished canvas over foam trailer.
I live on the east side of Indianapolis.

[rowerwet]

I wanted a removeable box as well, I didn't build that way though as it would have added too much time. Instead I had an old tent trailer given to me for free. The frame from it became my second trailer. Look on craigslist, and you will find old tent trailers for free or nearly free, after the mice destroy the fabric. save all the good bits, you can sell them or add them to your project, scrap all the metal you don't want, (good for a few bucks), clean and modify the frame as you want and you have a great utility trailer frame for a little time and next to no money. And probably stronger than the chinese bolt together one, put that one under the Tear as you don't need that much strength for a foam box.