Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby GPW » Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:35 am

And Epoxy doesn’t do well in the Sun , must be coated over for protection … :thinking:
There’s no place like Foam !
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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby skyl4rk » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:49 am

Here is another example of landscape fabric and cement construction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDe43x5BqDg
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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby skyl4rk » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:57 am

Crazy Idea:

Bolt a cattle panel to a trailer to create a hoop house arched shape, similar to a "cattle panel greenhouse" (search on youtube if you haven't seen one already).

Apply landscape fabric plus cement over the cattle panel in a manner similar to paper mache. May have to support the cattle panel until the cement cures.

Cut beams of foam, for example the size of 2"x 6" x 8'. Use landscape fabric plus cement to stick the foam beam to the hoop house by covering it with fabric. Continue covering until the entire hoop house is insulated with foam.
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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby tony.latham » Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:37 am

Crazy Idea:


Agreed. :frightened: (My reply is humor.)

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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby TwilaR » Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:57 am

skyl4rk wrote:Crazy Idea:

Bolt a cattle panel to a trailer to create a hoop house arched shape, similar to a "cattle panel greenhouse" (search on youtube if you haven't seen one already).

Apply landscape fabric plus cement over the cattle panel in a manner similar to paper mache. May have to support the cattle panel until the cement cures.

Cut beams of foam, for example the size of 2"x 6" x 8'. Use landscape fabric plus cement to stick the foam beam to the hoop house by covering it with fabric. Continue covering until the entire hoop house is insulated with foam.



not so crazy an idea...
https://communitysupportedshelters.org/ ... ion-manual

I debated going this route, but I'm starting on my microcabin today and I don't think the temperature would cooperate. So it's going to be along the lines of Lamar Alexander's Redhawk microcabin plans instead.
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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby skyl4rk » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:42 am

I have been doing some experiments:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/kVS5zrb

The single layer cement/landscape fabric part is flexible and will probably crack if bent too far. Not very useful by itself. I believe it will be waterproof or at least water resistant.

Three layers of cement/fabric are still somewhat flexible.

Cement/fabric adheres well to foam. At a fabric edge, you can lift it and pull it up with some force to separate the foam and fabric, but if you cover the fabric edges with another layer of fabric, it is not easy to separate.

One layer of cement fabric leaves exposed edges which are vulnerable to separation. The resulting part is stiff and lightweight.

A wrapped piece of foam is stiff, strong and reasonably lightweight. The part in the pictures was wrapped with fabric/cement, then wrapped in plastic, and a weight was put on top of it. The result was an uneven surface which had too much cement on it. A better result would be to do one side at a time and air dry it. Using a squeegee or some type of scraper to limit the amount of cement slurry on the fabric would result in a lighter composite, smoother surface and more visually appealing result.

About 1 cup of portland cement mixed with 1/2 cup water makes a thick slurry which will saturate about 4 square feet of landscape fabric. One square foot of landscape fabric saturated with cement slurry and cured on top of plastic weighs about 70 grams. I also tried adding 1 or 2 teaspoons of latex additive, but did not notice a great deal of difference in the result. The additive fabric/cement sheets were slightly more flexible than sheets without the latex additive.

Recommendations for further experimentation:

Try landscape fabric as a replacement for canvas in a foamie build using paint in the "normal" way.

Add portland cement slurry to a water based latex paint and use it as the foam to fabric adhesive and fabric covering. Try about 1 part paint to 1 part cement slurry.

Make larger foam panels with cement/fabric sheathing, with wrapped edges. Put one layer of fabric/cement on one side of the foam, let it cure with the fabric side up to the air (no plastic), then turn the foam over and repeat on the other side. After both sides are cured, take strips of fabric/cement and wrap them around the edges.

Conclusion:

I don't know enough to compare this method to the paint and canvas method. It is a very low cost way to cover foam. It should be very UV resistant. For reasons of appearance, it may need a covering of paint. The resulting foam/fabric/cement composite is stiff and lightweight.
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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby skyl4rk » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:43 am

Image
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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby John61CT » Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:06 am

cement is insane in a mobile use case

you need material with flex, ideally over a very rigid frame & substrate

the landscape fabric with some polyurethane sealant / adhesive coating, maybe

Basically a Foamie design, all-synthetic
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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby dogcatcher » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:30 pm

I saw a pyramid built out of foam sheets that was covered with latex concrete system. Non moveable, heavy and strong construction, not feasible for a trailer. But the foam pyramid was 12 foot square, he covered it with fiberglass screen material, then sprayed the latex concrete on it, several coats. The screen "was suspended slightly off of the foam. The latex concrete mix created a lock on both sides with the cement. It is an off the grid cabin, with no water, electric or gas, primitive outhouse, that is also foam with a concrete covering that looks like a skinny igloo. He got the idea rom the pyramid on this link. https://elkinsdiy.com/burningman-pyramid-shelter/ Unique, but a lot of wasted area because of the sloped walls.

But if that can be done, I would suggest trying fiberglass screen material over over the foam shape, then a thinner cloth over it like a bed sheet. As a test I would make a tongue glass screen, the [email protected] mix etc., out of foam and try to seal it with the fiberglass screen and bed sheet.
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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby dogcatcher » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:30 pm

I saw a pyramid built out of foam sheets that was covered with latex concrete system. Non moveable, heavy and strong construction, not feasible for a trailer. But the foam pyramid was 12 foot square, he covered it with fiberglass screen material, then sprayed the latex concrete on it, several coats. The screen "was suspended slightly off of the foam. The latex concrete mix created a lock on both sides with the cement. It is an off the grid cabin, with no water, electric or gas, primitive outhouse, that is also foam with a concrete covering that looks like a skinny igloo. He got the idea rom the pyramid on this link. https://elkinsdiy.com/burningman-pyramid-shelter/ Unique, but a lot of wasted area because of the sloped walls.

But if that can be done, I would suggest trying fiberglass screen material over over the foam shape, then a thinner cloth over it like a bed sheet. As a test I would make a tongue glass screen, the [email protected] mix etc., out of foam and try to seal it with the fiberglass screen and bed sheet.
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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby John61CT » Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:24 pm

I like the idea of using porch screen fabric

in plastic, at the highest "dog proof" strength rating.

With a very chemically compatible sealant/adhesive maybe UV safe, so no further outside paint/coating required

unless for desired pretty-aesthetics.

If insulation / structural strength required,

either applied Foamie style over XPS/polyiso

or foam sprayed from the inside afterwards.

Would very likely NOT be cheaper nor stronger than traditional fibreglass + gelcoat, so

really just a thought experiment
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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby John61CT » Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:27 pm

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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby dogcatcher » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:14 pm

Here is another idea, although not "foamie" I believe with some ingenuity it could be adapter to your ideas. https://ratrodbikes.com/forum/threads/l ... ect.26096/
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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby DrewsBrews » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:22 am

As far as I can tell canvas has 2 things going for it for a foamie.

1: it shrinks.. forming a tight but flexible shell that locks the whole structure in tension.

2: It works well with water based adhesives and coatings.. which dont tend to have solvents that dissolve the foam.
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Re: Polypropylene Landscape Fabric?

Postby John61CT » Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:43 pm

What these stronger "fabrics" might bring to the table

for larger (especially taller) camper / trailer / expo truck etc pods / shells

greater penetration & ripping force resistance off road on narrow forest fire / BLM trails

where sawing encroaching shrubs & tree branches would otherwise slow progress to a snail's pace.

And

super-strong bonding and complete waterproofing in one pass with a modern high-tech single-part adhesive / sealant material

where primer+paint as an outside layer is functionally not required at all, unless desired for aesthetic reasons

at this point only a thought experiment but IMO interesting possibilities
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