Titebond II or III?

[steepski]

Learned about PMF and foamies a little while ago from this site. Really cool! It seems like all the builds I've looked at so far use titebond II in the PMF. Is there a reason not to use Titebond III? It is stronger and more waterproof, so I would think it would be preferable?

Thanks!

[MtnDon]

TB3 is not all that much stronger; 4000 psi vs 3750 for TB2.

Water proof TB3 vs water resistant TB2. IF you are dealing with layered wood, like plywood, IMO, in the end it does not matter if the glue is waterproof. It is the wood that will come apart and probably at the glue line.

TB3 has about twice the open time of TB1 & 2. Sometimes that is an advantage. Sometimes TB2's shorter open time is an advantage. This, to me, is the most important difference. The longer open time is great when gluing up something complicated like I sometimes run into with furniture. Other times, like today when I was gluing up a few small parts the shorter open time was desitred so I used TB2.

TB3 costs more.

[Don L.]

From what I have read here TB III doesn't like to adhere to itself in multiple layers and such whereas TB II will. So I took that to heart when I chose a glue. I have not personally tried TB III.

[KCStudly]

Ditto what Don said.^

[GPW]

Does anybody have an issue with paint adhering over dried titebond(s) ... ? We used some really sticky Gorilla tape around the AC hatch and when we pulled some back, it removed paint and primer down to the T2 ... Recent priming of the new FoamStream roof had occasion of ”lifting" when we went back 20 min . later to roll on some more primer on bare spots , the roller pulled off the first coat of primer down to the T2 ... Had we let the Gripper dry completely before trying touch up , it might have been OK ??? That we will test this weekend ...

[KCStudly]

Did you scuff the glued areas prior to primer to give it some tooth?

[lthomas987]

Paint over not fully cured primer isn't a great plan with most house paints, according to my cousin who paints houses.

I have had that super sticky black gorilla tape on my foamy and peeled it off and left the paint and primer and fabric and glue all intact. But there was like a week between glue and primer, a week between primer and paint, and months before the tape incident. I was however SUPER DUPER CAREFUL peeling it off, and it hadn't been on more than 24 hrs and in a cool shaded spot. (one should be very careful asking somebody to just tape that bit on there with the roll of tape behind you (thinking packing tape) and having them grab the gorilla tape.

[tony.latham]

We used some really sticky Gorilla tape

I've had Gorilla stuff pull wood grain off of bare pine when removing it.

T

[rowerwet]

That is the reason I caution against filling the weave with TBII , paint can't get down into the fiber of the fabric, and doesn't stick very well to the TBII.

[lthomas987]

That is the reason I caution against filling the weave with TBII , paint can't get down into the fiber of the fabric, and doesn't stick very well to the TBII.

I didn't fill my weave, which might be whyI have had success vs the tape.

[steepski]

What is "filling the weave"? Is that just putting on enough glue that it completely covers the weave of the canvas?

Thanks for all the help and replies. It seems TB II is the way to go. It's cheaper too!

[lthomas987]

What is "filling the weave"? Is that just putting on enough glue that it completely covers the weave of the canvas?

Thanks for all the help and replies. It seems TB II is the way to go. It's cheaper too!

Yep. Exactly.


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[GPW]

There’s a difference between “filling the weave” and “sizing the canvas” ... Filling the weave was that thick coat of TB2 on the top after the canvas was attached ... and actually we DON’T want to do that anymore ! Paint Primer is the thing to use instead to fill the weave .
The sizing mixture is so thin it only wets the fabric fibers with the glue ( waterproofing on the fiber level) , and leaves plenty of “tooth" for the paint to grab on to ...

Our last canvas job , last week , we had to cut through the roof skin to change the roofline and add new canvas. Cutting through the old layers which were two thicknesses of 18oz. canvas and TB2, Gripper , then paint , (2 years old and well cured) ... It was Difficult to cut even with my sharpened utility knife . Equivalent to a 36 oz. layer iof canvas... It was Tough and leathery , and really has held up well so far. That was done with TB2 for attaching , Gripper primer (2 coats) , and paint ( 2 coats ) ... that’s all ...
What we learned is that when attaching canvas, DON’T SKIMP ON THE GLUE !!! Better to use too much than too little ...
KC , we always sand for the tooth , maybe sometimes just not well enough ... and clean like crazy too ....
The FS was built in the driveway and without the luxury of help till the painting came around... so some of the steps only got hurried attention ... Having a helper for some things makes it 200% easier for me ... The areas that the Gorilla tape pulled up will be re Sanded , primed and re painted ... and since we found a few little holes where the ants chewed right throught that tough leathery canvas ( grrrrr!!!) so we’ll be adding a new canvas patch over that...

[steepski]

Thanks for the clarification! So to summarize the gluing process:

1. After preparing the foam, the first step is applying lots of glue to the foam, and then laying the fabric on top, and pressing it down with a roller.
2. Then, once that has dried, "sizing" with a thin coat of thinned glue over top of the dried canvas.
3. Then lots of paint primer over top to "fill the weave"

Is that about right?

Wow, two layers of 18 oz! I bet that is supper strong.

[ghcoe]

Thanks for the clarification! So to summarize the gluing process:

1. After preparing the foam, the first step is applying lots of glue to the foam, and then laying the fabric on top, and pressing it down with a roller.
2. Then, once that has dried, "sizing" with a thin coat of thinned glue over top of the dried canvas.
3. Then lots of paint primer over top to "fill the weave"

Is that about right?

Wow, two layers of 18 oz! I bet that is supper strong.

Well there are plenty of ways a person can do it. Which one is the best? I don't know. All I know is what worked for my build and it worked well. No one really has a set way to do it, although I am thinking of cleaning up my posts and submitting them as a "how to" in a separate thread. I think my explanation is one of only a few that has step by step information. Problem is that it is buried in my build.

If interested outside canvas covering starts here.
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=54099&start=405
Interior info starts here.
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=54099&start=600

Good luck.