A more durable Foamie?

[rruff]

Hi, I've done a lot of reading on this site and was initially very excited about building a "Foamie" truck camper. After getting some supplies and building some samples, I was less enthused. The PMF construction has a lot going for it but it isn't very strong or resistant to denting and punctures. I made some samples with 10 oz canvas and TB2 and compared it to one with 2.7mm cheap luan skins. Foamular 150 15 psi foam in both. The luan was a lot harder to penetrate with screwdriver (~2x?). But it was also about twice as heavy, which gave me hope for PMF. I built a truck camper about 16 years ago using foam and luan sandwich with layer of fiberglass cloth, polyester resin, and gelcoat on the outside. That was really solid! Could a foam and PMF camper be just as durable if it weighed about the same? I understand that durability wasn't the highest priority with this method. Rather cheap, light, well insulated, won't rot, non toxic, easy to work with, and "durable enough"... but... Is there a way to step up the durability a good deal without losing too much of the Foamie's best attributes? I don't mind spending a little more or increasing the weight within reason, if I can have the rest.

The first things that come to my mind are stronger foam, heavy cloth (or multiple layers), and a stronger exterior shell than latex paint (maybe Monstaliner?). People who live up north might be able to find heavier duty foam, but I've had zero luck where I live unless I order 50 sheets. I did eventually find a place that would ship, but they wanted $600 just for shipping 18 1" sheets! It basically cost as much as the foam itself, and the foam wasn't cheap either! The good stuff is Foamular 600 or High Load 60, both are extruded 60 psi styrofoam. The common hardware store foam is 15 or 25 psi. Comparison chart: http://www.foamular.com/assets/0/144/17 ... 5bea18.pdf Seems like using foam that can take over 2-4x the pressure before it deforms would be a good idea. If you can get it. I've heard that concrete contractors will often sell it if you live in a cold climate.

So now I'm looking at the PMF layer. It seems to be a pretty good composite. I like that it uses natural fibers and the "resin" is very non toxic. It's strong for its weight. But I don't see many people doubling or tripling the layers like they do with fiberglass. Is it just because one layer is enough? It isn't for me! Or are there issues with multiple layers? I have some double layer samples drying, but I'd like to know what others experiences have been.

Thank you!

[dancam]

I may be able to get 40-60 psi styrofoam shipped to you from Canada if you are very seriously interested. However it would be the white expanded styrofoam, not the extruded. Anywhere from 1in to 6in thick sheets.

For tougher coverings i found a few but never tested them. One is a green spray on waterproofing. I will ask but if you lay fibreglass mesh onto 1.5in thick foam and spray it on you can drive a pickup over it and it holds up very well. However at about $200/gallon CAD i didnt pursue that.
You could also experiment with spraying fibreglass resin onto the canvass. Maybe try a brush first and if you want to do the whole thing get a sprayer. Perhaps just the mesh and fibreglass resin over the foam instead of canvass and paint. This would be tough but ugly.
Glueing frp panels to the foam is something i experimented in, but ended up not doing because they only came in 4ft widths. Can get up to 12ft long though. Properly applied you can bond frp to a foam ceiling with pl premium.
You could check out different plastics you can buy and how they can be bonded to foam. You can get 20, 30, 40 thousanths of an inch thick plastic in white or clear, 4x8 sheets for cheap.

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[dancam]

Something i wanted to try but didnt would be an experiment with automotive paints. They dry/cure harder, typically cannot handle being a thick layer and because they are harder they are more brittle. However you can add flex additive. Spraying canvass would be very very expensive but doing a sample would be interesting. There is a product called 'slicksand' which is basically sprayable bodyfiller (aka bondo). If you thinned it out more so it would soak the canvass that would be interesting. However most 2k automotive paints will likely eat the foam or the glue

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[linuxmanxxx]

I'm looking real hard at styrospray foam coatings. Plastic that's as hard as golf ball shell and water based type non toxic application. Going with the thickness they say and coverage it was looking like about 300 to cover a stand-up type build which compared to aluminum or frp is decent priced.

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[dancam]

I'm looking real hard at styrospray foam coatings. Plastic that's as hard as golf ball shell and water based type non toxic application. Going with the thickness they say and coverage it was looking like about 300 to cover a stand-up type build which compared to aluminum or frp is decent priced.

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Sweet, having a uniform finish with nowhere to leak is way better than multiple sheets of frp with seams. What can you spray it with?

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[linuxmanxxx]

Hopper like for acoustic ceilings 20 bucks on sale at HF usually

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[KennethW]

Hopper like for acoustic ceilings 20 bucks on sale at HF usually.

If you don't have a larger air compressor.you can get a electric version at the big box lumber yards.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Wagner-Power ... 3=&veh=sem

That sounds like some nice stuff.

[ghcoe]

I guess it depends on what you want. I find that the canvas over foam is just as strong if not stronger as a traditional aluminum skin over frame travel trailer. Now if you back the skins with wood of course it will be stronger.

[GPW]

Quote : ... “ but it isn't very strong or resistant to denting and punctures. “ ... That’s somewhat true ,but just a few considerations... Foamies left in the hot Sun repair their own dents ... ( True ! ) And punctures are easily repaired , and patched.( try that on Fiberglass , wood or aluminum ) ..... You could make the skin thicker ( couple layers) that would be stronger , or use a Heavy canvas , the FoamStream has 18 oz. canvas and is pretty Tough !!! 2.5 years and counting , living outside with no worries ... ( My commercial Jayco RV @ 10+ times the price didn’t last that long before completely falling apart ... )
As with much anything else , there are compromises made for weight , finish , and cost . You can always get more of what you want , but something will be affected ... Likely Cost and weight ... as we all found out , little things add up ... even on Foamies ...


We might have mentioned this a while back , but EPP ( expanded poly propylene ) foam is probably the most durable / Toughest foam you’re going to find , and comes in many weights/densities ... It’s the stuff they make car bumpers, and bicycle helmets from ... it’s Very expensive ... so tough you don’t even need to skin it ... Most any adhesive can be used ... Many possibilities ..

"I guess it depends on what you want.” ... For those that didn’t read the big thread ( and i can’t blame you) , that was the original idea ..something everybody could adapt for their own trailer building needs to replace things we knew didn’t last (rot) , weighed a lot, or were difficult to use ... Re: Simple campers that you could make at home without having to sell the farm ...
And as far as appearance , I don’t believe they were ever intended to replace the Shiny/Slick decorated “RV" look ( or price ... or maintenance ) ... it’s just a camper ... a "hard tent” ... But there are no rules and you can make it as Luxurious as you want ...or spend as much as you want ... Please just take some pictures to share with us...

[GPW]

... and then there’s things like the very simple Foamie #1 , which Bonnie owns now and is currently re fitting it for more space ... It’s over 4 years old now , made of just 2” blue foam , bedsheet interior skin and a light outer Linen skin .... Lived through our hot summers , hurricanes , and even a mega Hail storm that made it look like a golf ball ( healed in the Sun) ... Still going strong ... I’m sure she’ll be on the road soon as weather permits ...
Kenneth W has been Everywhere in his Foamie ... WELL travelled !!!

Hard to argue with success , especially since success isn’t that expensive or complicated ...

[bonnie]

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[greygoos]

I know ABS has been suggested before. It is on a thread somewhere about using ABS over foam for a rooftop tent. 3M makes an epoxy glue that bonds ABS to foam but only comes in small tubes. I am going to try some testing with bonding some ABS sheet to foam. I will post if anyone is interested. I built a Foamie about 6 months ago and used FRP - the cheap stuff not Filon and used Pl Premium to bond but PL wont stick to ABS.

[Pmullen503]

I'm looking real hard at styrospray foam coatings. Plastic that's as hard as golf ball shell and water based type non toxic application. Going with the thickness they say and coverage it was looking like about 300 to cover a stand-up type build which compared to aluminum or frp is decent priced.

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I've been using Styrospray 1000 for years and considered it for my foamie. I think it will work just fine and if you want a smooth, shiny surface on your trailer, it's cheaper than glass and epoxy. I'll tell you it's extremely sensitive to the climate in your shop. Don't even think about using it if it's below 65F or below 50% humidity. It cures by contact with moisture in the air. In fact, you can mix the two parts, put them in a sealed container and they will never cure (they will thicken so don't mix more than you need and expect to use it the next day.)

It is definitely NOT water based. You clean things up by throwing them away! I suppose you can clean the hopper gun by letting the SS cure and peeling it off.

It does have a smell to it so don't use it indoors.

Several coats, 30-60 minutes apart will probably be needed; it will run on vertical surfaces if it's too thick. I bag and put my tools in the freezer between coats.

[linuxmanxxx]

I know ABS has been suggested before. It is on a thread somewhere about using ABS over foam for a rooftop tent. 3M makes an epoxy glue that bonds ABS to foam but only comes in small tubes. I am going to try some testing with bonding some ABS sheet to foam. I will post if anyone is interested. I built a Foamie about 6 months ago and used FRP - the cheap stuff not Filon and used Pl Premium to bond but PL wont stick to ABS.

Get some e6000 and test it. Stuff will stick to anything and won't eat foam. Can get construction size tubes on Amazon. Stinks and requires ventilation but boy it's the best glue I've ever seen.

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[QueticoBill]

WOw - the styrospray products are very interesting. Began to wonder if you could build a mold for an entire teardrop and have a single piece for the entire cabin from some of their products.

Any photos of tears coated with the sprays?