Newbie Looking Leaning Towards a Foamie (My Question Thread)

[jseyfert3]

Just don't get caught running it w/o reg. That would negate the whole cost saving effort.

You seem to be plenty knowledgeable and catching on quickly; I'm sure you know how to step drill those holes starting with a center prick punch (transfer punch is preferred) using plenty of lube and nice sharp drill bits... slow speed, make chips not smoke, right?

I've got temp plates already, so that's not an issue.

I forgot about the center punch though. I have not actually drilled much metal before. I remember my dad drilling some metal once, he did high speed and low pressure, don't think he step drilled...took a while. And the biggest problem...I need a set of metal drill bits...guess a trip to HD or Menard's is in order, unless HF's drill bits are actually worth anything for drilling metal.

Actually, it's a good thing you commented, guess I better review drilling through steel. Anyhow, learning is fun. Is WD-40 enough for drilling or am I looking at something more like engine oil?

[KCStudly]

The best is cutting oil (high sulfur), but motor oil works fine. WD is too light. Use slow speed and enough pressure to cut a chip (drill needs to be properly sharpened). Except for very small bits, high speed makes too much friction and will "blue" or blacken a bit in nothing flat. That makes them soft and they will not hold an edge again unless you grind them down (resharpen) taking all of the blue part off (waste).

When you run the drill slow with high pressure it takes a good chip and you get thru the hole faster than if you run the drill fast and make dust.

Wear safety glasses.

[jseyfert3]

It seems that people that build foamies put a build thread here in the foamie section instead of the build thread section. Is this correct?

The best is cutting oil (high sulfur), but motor oil works fine. WD is too light. Use slow speed and enough pressure to cut a chip (drill needs to be properly sharpened). Except for very small bits, high speed makes too much friction and will "blue" or blacken a bit in nothing flat. That makes them soft and they will not hold an edge again unless you grind them down (resharpen) taking all of the blue part off (waste).

When you run the drill slow with high pressure it takes a good chip and you get thru the hole faster than if you run the drill fast and make dust.

Wear safety glasses.

I'll one up that, I've got a $4 full face shield from HF I'll wear. Slow speed, use enough pressure, use plenty of oil. HD has thread cutting oil, that's what I got. Picked up a pack of DeWalt Titanium drill bits, and I'll be giving this a go after work tonight. Forgot the center punch so I'm going to grab that on the way to work...

Thanks for the help!

[KCStudly]

No problem. This board is all about getting and giving help.

I'm probably not the best person to ask about where to put your build journal. My build is a "tweener", in between a true foamie and a traditional (a "hybrid"). The foamie concept was just taking off when I started getting involved, and I decided that my method of construction would be leaning toward the foam side, so I put my build in here. Despite having almost 50k views, I think it would have gotten even more exposure in the regular Build Thread forum (not so much an ego thing as a benefit to the build... it takes a village ya know? and the more people involved the better the... and perhaps I would be giving back to even more people that way).

IMO it wouldn't hurt to have a few foamie and/or hybrid builds in the regular build thread section because it would help spread the word and get more people thinking about the opportunities we are opening up over here. You can tell that we have the attention of some of the veteran "perpetual builders".

[jseyfert3]

Hmm, good idea. I wasn't even planning a foamy myself. Only reason I found them and got interested was because I was using Tapatalk on my phone and stumbled across a foamie build thread (Grits) while reading recent posts which got me interested. I actually started a build thread in the regular section when I bought my trailer, I'll just continue it over there.

BTW, I realized when I got back the DeWalt titanium bits I got where pilot point bits with a 90° cutting surface. Then I realized I can't step drill with a flat cutting surface. At Ace Hardware I found Irwin titanium drill bits with a I believe a 138° cutting surface, and I'll just take the DeWalt bits back.

Oh yes, I took a look at the end of your build thread. No wonder it has 50k views, your attention to detail is awesome!

[KCStudly]

Oh yes, I took a look at the end of your build thread. No wonder it has 50k views, your attention to detail is awesome!

Thanks. It can be a curse at times, but "it's how I roll".

Most drill bits for metal have an <edit>118 </edit> deg bevel tip. Other specialty bits can be hard (impossible) to resharpen. I highly recommend Drill Doctor. Makes resharpening bits almost brainless. Precision grind.

Just in case it wasn't clear, when I said step drilling I meant starting with a small bit then moving up to a slightly larger one, and so on until you get to the size that gives you a little more clearance than the bolt. So for a 3/8 bolt I might go 3/16, 5/16, then 7/16.

Not to be confused with a stepped drill bit that kind of looks like a xmas tree and is commonly used for drilling sheet metal, such as for electrical knockouts.

If you change your mind on which forum you want, you can always just flag it for a moderator and ask them to change it, but I say, go ahead and be different.

[jseyfert3]

Most drill bits for metal have an 82 deg bevel tip. Other specialty bits can be hard (impossible) to resharpen. I highly recommend Drill Doctor. Makes resharpening bits almost brainless. Precision grind.

Just in case it wasn't clear, when I said step drilling I meant starting with a small bit then moving up to a slightly larger one, and so on until you get to the size that gives you a little more clearance than the bolt. So for a 3/8 bolt I might go 3/16, 5/16, then 7/16.

Not to be confused with a stepped drill bit that kind of looks like a xmas tree and is commonly used for drilling sheet metal, such as for electrical knockouts.

82° bevel? Where does the 82 come from? The bits I got say "135° Split Point Tip", and I note the $100 Drill Doctor can sharpen 118° and 135° point angles. Just trying to learn here, that's all.

On the drill doctor, is there a model you recommend? The cheapest is $50, the next one is $100, I was afraid to look at the model after that.

Also on the drill bits, I got the Titanium Nitrate coated (gold) ones. I heard they are fine, but once the coating wears off, they turn into a regular drill bit. Can they still be sharpened? Or should I just plunk down the money for a set of colbalt drill bits like these or something else? The HF bolts are metric, 10 mm, so I'll need a 13/32" or 7/16" final size. The existing holes on the frame are about 11 mm, which is close to 7/36".

As to the step drilling, I did indeed understand what you meant by that at least.

The one thing I keep learning, is that things seem simple if you don't know about them, and the more you learn about them, the more you learn you've hardly learned anything.

[GPW]

Js, the trailer bits are just things we All have to deal with ! But the Foamie part can be really Simple , and work fine ... (the FUN part)

[KCStudly]

82° bevel? Where does the 82 come from?

That comes form me being confused and citing the common angle for a flat head screw countersink!

What I meant was 118 deg. 135 deg is also fine to use on steel.

(Edited my previous post.)

The Drill Doctors have changed design a few times since the one we have at work was made, and the one I have. I haven't looked at the recent models, but when I bought mine it came with the small and larger collet, so I can sharpen larger bits. I think the base model only has the small collet and you have to buy the larger one separately. Things may have changed.

Here's a link to their product comparison chart.
http://www.drilldoctor.com/technical-support/product-comparison-chart.html

[jseyfert3]

Js, the trailer bits are just things we All have to deal with ! But the Foamie part can be really Simple , and work fine ... (the FUN part)

Looking forward to that.

It has started! Drilled three holes, got two or three more, then I'm done, with one side... Then I have to break out the angle grinder, clean up, bolt together, square, pull bearings, clean and grease, replace and assemble hubs, bolt on axle, wire lights. And after that, I can take my new trailer to the store to get wood for the raised floor frame and floor, and foam.

One thing I haven't come across yet, is attaching a raised floor. If you make a raised floor frame from 1x4's, how do you bolt that down? Metal angle brackets, that bolt to the frame then to the 1x4? Seems like you couldn't drill through a 1x4 and run a long bolt through it lengthwise. Perhaps you could, or maybe lag bolts? But it seems lag bolts could have a problem with rotting near the threads, plug again not much room drilling into the narrow edge of a 1x4. I did look for this, but haven't found it. Seen a couple raised floors, but when I did, they didn't say how they attached it to the trailer.

You can track the build here, once I have the holes drilled I'll start posting pics.

[GPW]

JS, we just bolted our frame to the trailer , and ran the bolts through floor and frame ... That works fine ...

[jseyfert3]

JS, we just bolted our frame to the trailer , and ran the bolts through floor and frame ... That works fine ...

You ran the bolts through the narrow edge of a 1x4 or 2x4?

[GPW]

No , through the flat edge , although going through a 2X4 like that shouldn’t be a problem (1X4 is kinda’ narrow for that ) ...

[jseyfert3]

No , through the flat edge , although going through a 2X4 like that shouldn’t be a problem (1X4 is kinda’ narrow for that ) ...

Yeah, hence my question.

So, basically, I want the floor to clear the fenders. That way I can build over them, no worries about tire rubbing, etc. A frame made of 1x4's would weigh half that of one made of 2x4's and should give me enough height to clear the fenders. So that's what I needed to know, how to attach a frame of skinny 1x4's which are all standing on edge.

If it helps, I'll whip up a Google Sketchup showing the planned frame. I was meaning to start using Google Sketchup anyhow to start getting an idea of how everything will look and fit together, now that my trailer is starting to actually get built.

[GPW]

Personally , I wouldn’t bother with the 1X4s , as the 2X4 will only add slightly more weight to the overall build ,and much more strength ... and with a Foamie cabin being so light , you’ll still be able to add the ballast ..

If you add weight , the idea is to keep it as LOW as possible .. increasing crosswind stability ... (if needed)

Just good wood selection can save you a lot of weight to begin with ... on a Foamie , you don’t need Oak , when Fir or Spruce would do and at much less weight ...