Advanced board wood waterproofing ...

[GPW]

DC, that may (or may not ) be as easy as you think ... I think we use wood , because we can glue it , we can screw things onto it , and it is easily shaped with our readily available tools ... Fiberglass , not so much ...

[KCStudly]

DC, that may (or may not ) be as easy as you think ... I think we use wood , because we can glue it , we can screw things onto it , and it is easily shaped with our readily available tools ... Fiberglass , not so much ...

Believe it or not, I kind of disagree. With the exception of having to pot screws in (i.e. mold thickened epoxy around a screw thread in a pre-drilled hole) I have not found FG to be that much more difficult than wood; at least not so much that the benefits quite probably outweigh the deterrents.

Can we glue it? check.

Can we screw to it? Yes, with some effort. Thru bolting? Yes.

Easily shaped? Well, post cure not as easily as most of the common woods we use, but almost as easily as the harder woods, like maple and oak; even easier if you catch it while it is still "green". Pre-cure is all about the mold form or skill at layup. Compare to laminating a curved wall edge from strips of fir glued over a form, kerfing bending, or miter joining and routing wood to a template maybe there isn't such a big difference in complexity or effort when you look at the whole process.

What about tools? Other than the metering pumps, and respirator, I can't think of any special tools that have been needed (...and the respirator is a good idea when working with wood, too, especially cedar!). For small adjustments post cure the router and sanding blocks still work. Cloth cuts with scissors (pre-cure) or a utility knife/steak knife (post-cure). Haven't tried using power saws on it and haven't been working with any layups that are especially thick, but I suspect it would cut so long as you don't build too much heat (but maybe not advisable, and certainly not necessary if you plan your layups correctly).

Do I wish that I had used more FG for my framework instead of wood? No, not at all. Just saying, fiberglass is certainly a viable option.

What about weight? Well the FG wouldn't have to be a solid chunk the same as the wood. You could make foam cores and wrap them in cloth to form the frame members, then infill with foam and glass over the lot with a skin. That would make an incredibly strong and light structure, but is it really necessary?

The tops of my walls have no real hard frame. I did use thin ply inner skins that hold the profile and back up the wall foam cores. I have mentioned at times that I wished I had done a hard wooden edge all along the roof profile, but that was more of an issue of wishing that I had an easy way to put the 3/4 inch radius round-over on to the profile and not being able to follow foam with a guide bearing. In the end I will be happy with the hand formed edge radius. I used wood along the bottom edges of my walls and that was a real benefit in holding the panels true and avoiding damage to the foam during handling and construction, but I bet if I had just wrapped the lower few inches in glass cloth (picture a 'C' on the bottom edge and up both sides a few inches) it would have had the same effect.

[mgb4tim]

Cloth cuts with scissors (pre-cure) or a utility knife/steak knife (post-cure). Haven't tried using power saws on it and haven't been working with any layups that are especially thick, but I suspect it would cut so long as you don't build too much heat (but maybe not advisable, and certainly not necessary if you plan your layups correctly).

The cloth I use, stitichmat/1708 biaxial cloth, with unwaxed, maringe-grade polyester resin (stinky) laughs at my bandsaw, quickly stripping it of its teeth. Post cure, my cuts are made with a steel cut-off wheel on a grinder, a quick pass with a sander easily smooths out the cut.

Don't forget that most epoxy isn't UV stable and will need paint/gelcoat to protect it.

If I ever find the time to build, the majority of it will made of fiberglass and polyester resin, since I'm comfortable working with it, and I always have the materials (and, it's a different home-built approach).

[KCStudly]

Polyester resin eats the polystyrene foam that most of us have been using.

[dogscats]

I hope I'm not hijacking to much. Was thing about hard outer ring for a off road using resin at ring to attach canvas to fiberglass ring. Then TB over the rest of of the canvas That way I could hit a tree branch are three

[tony.latham]

I think we use wood , because we can glue it , we can screw things onto it , and it is easily shaped with our readily available tools ...

I use wood because I enjoy using it, and for me––in the high desert of Idaho, it lasts.

Here's a great video on wooden boat building using epoxy and the stitch-and-glue method. I'm sure if you built a boat like this––using quality plywood––it'd last for generations.



Now doesn't that just make you want to build one of these? If I lived on a lack...(I'd use the 1/4" subfloor plywood I use in teardrops in a heartbeat for a project like this.)

Note that he doesn't glass the inside. I assume he seals it with epoxy prior to painting the inside.

Two-bits says somebody is going to watch this and toy with building a stitch-and-glue teardrop.

Tony

[GPW]

"Believe it or not, I kind of disagree.” KC , are we talking about the same thing , maybe not ??? ... I “read” it as a structural FG ring ...("After looking at post with the wood ring would there any thing wrong with a fiberglass ring .” ) , we’ve seen things like this on local boat constructions ... Big formers , parts (etc.) made in huge FG molds , sprayed with a chopper gun, matte and cloth ... Quite involved ( not for you of course) but likely beyond the average home builders normal capability ... I’m trying to speak for the Average guy like me who is limited and doesn’t have access to fabrication shops, advanced tools, and lots of Coin ... or the luxury of Time ...
And there is the Health risk ... I know of several friends developed allergies to Epoxy ,and a friend DIED (morte) from the polyester Fg resin fumes .... As a “published” RC modeler for many years we got to the Rash- itchy stage of epoxy sensitivity .... so had to AVOID that in the future ... So far we have not developed any sensitivity to TB2 or Latex paint ..... BUT , we are being cautious... And I highly recommend we ALL be very cautious with Whatever materials we use ... !!! Allergies are like a bucket ... it gets filled a little at a time , till it overflows...

In the interest of advancing everybody’s knowledge about Foamies , we’ll all happily agree to do “our own thing” and promise to report back how it worked .... All our opinions/ideas are Valid and able to be tested for accuracy and usability, as needed for our giant still developing Foamie’ data base. The more that we can record as “Working” or not gives everyone access to information allowing them to come to their own individual conclusions.. Let’s not waste our time disagreeing, there’s Facebook for that ... Instead , lets REPORT our findings ... The FACTS as Tested... ( this is not an election ... we will have to stick to what is actually true. )


Funny , this all reminds me of 25 years ago when we were competing in Archery contests... Simple as the idea is of a Bow and Arrow, the division of opinions was so extreme ,to avoid bickering it all got divided up into classes who competed apart from the other “persuasions” (Familiar? ) ... There was Primitive class, bows and arrors made of Natural materials in the old profiles (stick) ,adhesives excluded. (See: Indians, Mongolians, Robin Hood) , The Traditional class, bows using wood and Fiberglass ( and Carbon fiber,Spectra,Kevlar , etc.etc....ad nauseum).. The third class was those guys with training wheels and “laser" sights on their bows ...
In the end we all ended up shooting together cause’ it was just more Fun , and we could brag more at the big BBQ after the event was over...
Although we have trailers made of many different materials an in many different shapes, we’re ALL still CAMPERS eh ... We are One family working for "the Greater Good" ...

[GPW]

And “Just sayin’ “ ... As a professional Artist for 46 years now ( career) , if you read the toxicity of the chemicals that make up our art paints , you’ll understand why our brushes have such LONG handles...

Guys , we like wood probably better than anybody , but we’ve just seen / had too much of it Rot away ... due to either not waterproofing or just cheap (rot prone) wood not used correctly ( or Hurricane flooding ) ... I’d RATHER use wood !!! .... But am just desperately searching for a way to ensure it stays lasting and beautiful ... Even Metal can’t fully protect wood parts , as we all have seen ... Gotta’ be a way ... !
(Mini-Rant) : Although we’ve built many structures in our life , we’ve Never seen Anything go to leaking and rotting so quick like a camper trailer does ... Must be the Vibrations ... Acceleration = (Mass) X (Speed)... More testing is indicated.

[dogscats]

I tried a piece after it cured stared to bend back and forth . No movement at first it cracked at the line from resin to t bond . So it failed. The ring had no give .
edit 8'' of fiberglass foam 1'' by 10'' by 12''sh 10oz duck the canvas was fine it was resin to tb bond line

[KCStudly]

GPW, no argument intended, just exploring the options from a different perspective. It can be a character flaw of mine, always looking at the flip side of everything. Call it "the knack" or Engineer's Disease if you will.

What I sort of talked myself into (then backed myself out of) was the idea of not doing a solid heavy plank of resin and glass layers, but rather making a simple curved piece of foam slightly under size; then lay up a couple of plies of 6oz cloth encapsulating that (shooting for the same overall thickness of the wall foam); epoxy that to the top of the wall foam core; and then lay on another couple of plies of 6oz over the whole thing. Now you have a reinforced bond beam of glass with a foam core along each edge of your foam wall.

But the reality is that that is absolute overkill. Two plies of 6oz over a glued foam corner joint is plenty strong enough to ward off branches with the same authority as a traditional build with aluminum trim. We are not building battleships here. No fight.

[KCStudly]

Come to think about it, this is essentially the same concept as your canvas covered arch rib stiffener idea, just turned sideways over the wall profile. You could do the same thing with canvas and glue, but it would still be excessively complicated. the wall and corner joint have so much strength in their simple state (90 deg joint, skinned) that there doesn't seem to be any need to complicate things further.

[lthomas987]

Two-bits says somebody is going to watch this and toy with building a stitch-and-glue teardrop.

Tony

That's a sucker bet http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/deve ... ailer.html a Stitch-and-glue boat kit maker makes a kit for it already.

[GPW]

QUOTE of the Decade !!! : “ We are not building battleships here. No fight. “ That’s been the whole point all along ...

“ Foamie campers ... More than a tent , less than a battleship !!! “ ...

[dancam]

Just read through this now. Back to the original idea for anyone thinking of it- when you put liquid under vaccum all the air and VOC's come out. With viscous liquids it sucks because 1 inch of materiel will rise 8 or 10 inches up your bucket before the bubbles break. But with very fluid or high voc liquids it almost explodes in the vaccum tank. It all tries to come out in 2 seconds and shoots everywhere and makes a big mess of your tank. I have had 1/2in of liquid in a small plastic cup shoot up and hit the lid of the vaccum tank which was 2 1/2 feet above it. What would happen with putting vaccum on this pvc tube full of the mix is that all the voc's would try to come out and you would very likely fill the vaccum pump with fluid unless the pvc tube was less than half full. If you had a clear top and could see it then maybe you could control it, but i doubt you could pull much vaccum.
Best bet would be to vaccum the wood by itself overnight. That would draw most of the air and moisture out of the wood. Then have a second fitting with a valve probably at the opposite end of the pump fitting. While the wood is still under full vaccum but the pump is off open the other valve which would be stuck into a pail of the 'mix'. The vaccum would pull 'the mix' in. In theory there is no more air inside the wood and the mix would be sucked into it. Once its full then pressurize the pvc tube. That compresses any air that was left in the wood and may help force it into the wood. Would heating the mix do anything?

[GPW]

Interesting idea Dan !!! We know it works with glue , why not the mix .... Don’t think heating it is a good idea ...

With so little wood used on a Foamie (ideally) it’s not much of a task ...