The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

[wagondude]

That looks like an interesting product. As for your license plate recess, you may have had trouble because of too many competing angles. Try using two pieces of fabric. The first would do just the top and two sides of the curb the a little fabric onto the plywood plate. The second would do the field and lower edge overlapping the curb pieces. That should relieve all the edges enough to prevent tension that may cause extra bubbling.

[S. Heisley]

Small areas are okay; however, I have not had good results with large areas of Spackle or Spackle-like products, when used on something that is going to be outdoors. I'd be tempted to use a paste of saw dust and TitebondII instead.

[ghcoe]

I have used the Fast and Final for most of my spackle needs on my build. I like it! I made mistake of applying some one time and then neglected to sand it till two weeks later, it was hard as a rock.

I found on my build that I was having a hard time seeing how much of the foam I was removing when sanding. I finally painted the whole trailer with Gripper. The Gripper will not sand easily, in fact I have not sanded through it except on edges. Knowing that I can not easily sand into the Gripper I can sand and fair out the fast and final quick and easily. I can even run the sanding block on the Gripper as a guide without fear of sanding into the foam. I am using 600 grit wet/dry blocks I picked up from Harbor Freight.

Also, once I get a coat of fast and final faired out as best I can I will put a coat of Gripper over it before adding more Fast and Final. This makes the last sanding of fast and Final a guide for the next coat of Fast and Final. Also, in theory, I think it makes for a stronger layer with Gripper and Fast and Final laminated.

Here is a example of fast and final laminated with Gripper.

This is how it looks before I started.

flashing

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You can barely see the flashing in this shot. I am ready for a coat of Gripper.

Fairing

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This is the finished fairing out of the door frame. The waves you see is gripper. I just left the waves there, too hard to sand out. Once the canvas was applied you could not see those small waves. Also, I might add there is no Fast and Final covering the flashing just Gripper. The flashing just blended into the wall.

Finished

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[Sheddie]

I don't know what it is that you guys have against fibreglass?
The way I would do it, would be a light weight woven fibreglass cloth, epoxy or polyester resin, skim with auto body filler, high build primer, then spray on a decent finishing paint. The body filler you could probably do before or after the fibreglass.
After reading the product spec sheet on that spackle, l wouldn't be using it to do what you are trying to do with it.
Just my 2c worth.

[Atomic77]

Hm... Ok now I'm confused...because that's what I thought you were doing. I just thought the spackle was to even things out prior to the fiberglass going on. Then sand, fill, prime and paint. That's not the plan?

[KCStudly]

Yes, the plan is to just use the spackle for fairing and filling small transitions. However, on the top portion of the hatch somehow the foam ended up being a little flat looking, especially in the middle, and didn't really carry the lines of the intended profile well. Also, in the front of the roof just after the transition from the tight front radius to the gradual roof radius I seem to have an inverted swail; same thing, not the intended profile. I suspect at the front that this was somehow due to my having to piece the CNC router templates together (even though I caught the problems with the templates and attempted to compensate by matching tangents of the good parts of the templates). At the hatch I'm thinking it has to do with how the hard wall edges pulled after curing, combined with how the edges of the hatch inner skin winged up (or rather the middle two ribs of the hatch sucked down, maybe).

Regardless, all I am trying to do is build these two areas up, perhaps 1/4 inch so that it looks better to the eye. I would not attribute the problems I am having with the spackle to a misuse of the product (to wit, Dow never intended for their foam to be used to build campers, and yet we are doing it; and DAP may have never intended their product to be used as a body filler, and yet it is working for me... yes, it is actually working quite well). I attribute the spackle application problems to my lack of skill as a plasterer. It wants to be mixed a little and then spread on "in one strike". Well, I can't seem to get it to where I am happy with it in one strike (or stroke) so I mess with it. Then I mess with it some more. Then I can't resist messing with it some more.

Like I said, I'm mostly discouraged because I had the hatch so close to being where I thought it was "good enough"... and then I couldn't leave well enough alone. Now I have more work to do.

I don't see anything wrong with this product in this application. It is light, at least as strong as the foam (better even), somewhat flexible, sands easy (although it does tend to roll up a bit when still a little green), and is rated for exterior use. Once cured it does not remodel or break down easily with dampness (although I haven't really given it a torture test, it holds up to wiping with a damp cloth without breaking down).

Compared to epoxy filler, it cleans up with water, there is no mixing, and it sands closer to the foam. Think of it as a vinyl caulk version of epoxy and micro balloons with a talc filler and you have it.

Sure, I could have skinned these areas with a 1/4 inch layer of foam, or spread GS all over and carved it back down, or started applying glass and epoxy and built up on top of that, but that's not the way I chose to go. I'll get it right and you will see. It will be okay. It will be better than okay, it will be great!

Atomic, I'm still waffling on the outer skin. I have already bought canvas and had always intended to do PMF with TB2 and paint, but I have not ruled out using epoxy over the canvas, or even switching to full on epoxy/glass and abandoning the canvas altogether. I know that I could fill either weave and bodywork to a smooth finish, but I have always liked the idea of the fabric texture, at least some of it. I figure if I get everything as smooth as I can now, I will be better able to maintain the consistency of the weave texture later; rather than having to fair after and end up with texture in some places but not in others.

[Wobbly Wheels]

As for your license plate recess, you may have had trouble because of too many competing angles.

That's what I was thinking as well. Using strips of fabric should alleviate it as well. If it's an issue you think you might have elsewhere, you could also rig a re-usable vacuum clamp to hold the inside corners in until the glue sets enough to do the job. Not sure if it would be worth it if that's the only trouble spot though.

If you do decide to go with glass and epoxy, all of the sanding an finishing you've done will let you use a lightweight cloth without anything telegraphing through. Lighter cloth also means less resin to wet it out ($$). Given the workmanship on the rest of the build, you should have no problem keeping the layup neat enough to paint. That will let you keep the look of the weave you get from the canvas.

Another bite of that elephant...

[KCStudly]

The bubbles I was seeing in the lic plt area where more on the flat surfaces around the border and the plate board. The inside corners did fight me, but that was really a separate issue; not so much from shrinkage, but from the outer border sticking to my gloves and pulling the inside corner up as I tried to smooth the outer part. It seemed to stick okay initially. I'm going to have another attempt at shaping that area and make the inside radius more gradual.

[dales133]

Your doing fine mate just got to resist the temptation of playing with the spakle.
Like you said it needs to be put on and left just the same as plaster,render or body filler.
Like i said before if its not to your liking let it dry to sandable stage then block it back and skim it again.
Trust me on this one kc it will save you alot of frustration.
I dont know even close to everything but i do know a few things

[GPW]

" but i do know a few things “ ... and we Do appreciate it too ...

[dales133]

[dales133]

How you getting on mate?
Was hoping for an update

[KCStudly]

Thanks for asking. There's nothing much new to report on the build.

Monday I made the mistake of going home first and bailed out. I like to change out of my work boots and jeans into something cooler and had not brought any shorts with me that morning, so I swung by the house to change. Once I got home my resolve dissolved; it was up into the 90's and I used that as an excuse not to head for the loft.

Wednesday I said screw it and laid a bunch more spackle down on the street side/middle of the hatch. Because of my previous negativity, and the doubting replies that it seemed to bring, I was planning on laying low on this course of action until I get it all worked out and back on track, but since you asked...

Yesterday at my day job we had a major system upgrade on an installation that I have been responsible for... something I have been working toward for a couple of years now... and that, predictably, ran into the evening. It was a long hard day, but I am glad to have it past me. Everything went very well, and I got some kudos; the VP of Quality was very happy and will be recognizing my crew and me by taking us out to lunch soon; not an everyday occurrence for sure.

Tonight I plan to keel the cabin over the other way and complete the buildup of spackle on the curb side. Most of this will get sanded back off again, but I figure it is better to try and get it squared away now (... er, rounded away now?), rather than later.

I'm still considering laminating a 1/4 inch layer of foam onto the front of the roof and just blocking that back to shape, rather than use that much more spackle up front (... and probably more than the hatch, as it is a slightly larger area), but Karl wasn't too keen on that idea for a fix. I might have a worse time getting the transition between the "scab" and base foam right on such a feathered edge.

Still also considering priming the whole thing now... or at least the roof... to give a little more stability and damage resistance for incidental dents, over sanding, etc., as was recommended.

I probably won't bother posting more pics of the bodywork progress. They don't really show the nuances that I'm dealing with very well and eventually all end up looking the same. I guess that is also partially due to the fact that I haven't got it sorted out yet, so it still kind of looks the same.

I'm thinking I may need another longer flat sanding board, and perhaps a shorter one that is curved closer to the actual radius of the roof. The other curved long board I did the majority of the roof with is just a little shallow compared to the roof, but worked okay averaging out the spar bays. On the hatch, where there aren't any spars to guide off of, and, because I can't easily cross over the hinge spars it leaves a bunch of the board hanging off the back where the hatch arch "bustle" starts to drop off. It would be better to have a medium length board with the correct curve, so I may work on that tonight.

[dales133]

Sounds like youll get it sorted
I glued 5mm of foam over the main foam on my front radius and i wouldnt do it again,far more troble than it was worth so good call there.
Apreciate the encouragement yove given me when i hit a hurdle or achieve a goal so i guess its what im trying to reciprocate.
Dont let the dreaded blue stuff get ya down mate

[KCStudly]

Thanks Dale, Your encouragement is working so I am glad to hear that it is reciprocal.

I spent about half my time tonight helping Karl troubleshoot a problem with the shear. The back gauge has three travel modes; fast in, fast out and slow in. The slow in option is not working. After hunting and pecking at the different components and figuring out how the big honking solenoid works with the drive motor reduction box, we still couldn't find any component in the circuit that had failed. Being somewhere north of 50 years old, it was apparent that someone had been in there "servicing" the wiring, so we couldn't be sure that the circuits hadn't been buggered up; and it took some doing to convince Karl that he needed to sketch out the full wiring diagram in order to figure where things have gone wrong. We'll get that figured out, but it is taking some time.

In the time I had left I decided to just knock the high junky stuff off of the top of the last round of spackle on the street side of the hatch, rather than making a new sanding block or tipping the cabin the other way and filling the other side. Of course, once you start sanding and it seems like you are getting somewhere, it's hard not to want to keep going. I changed my technique some, using the curved board in X's that were longer/flatter along the cabin's long axis, then switching up and using the new medium length flat board in rolling X's that were longer/flatter across wise (if that makes any sense).

Every once in a while I would throw another guide coat on, so that as I went I could tell that I wasn't accidentally going too deep in any particular area that the guide coat had been sanded off. This had the added benefit of progressively making the remaining low spots even darker, leaving no question about the low spots that would need a little touch up spackle. Bottom line, it seems like it's headed in the right direction again and will be even closer to where I want it, provided that I can get the other side to match.

Finished up by hitting the few low spots with a bit more, but at least this time it wasn't broad strokes, just smaller areas that could be spanned by the larger Bondo spreader.

I'm hoping to make even more forward progress tomorrow.

On the license plate, I have decided to change the shape of the "eyebrow" to a simple radius. The beveled rectangle outline was ever so out of symmetry from side to side and really stood out when I had the sheet on there (refer to earlier pics). Plus I think it will be easier to rework to this shape than it would be to try and get the old one right.