The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:32 am

Thank you Mary, will do!

I sure am looking forward to getting out there, and I'm sure we'll eventually make it to a gathering somewhere. You never know, Poet Creek is reasonably accessible from the Elk City side (only about 22 miles of forest service mountain road), so we might get some hardy souls to venture out there some day. Maybe something informal, like Randy's Craters of the Moon trip. :thumbsup:
Last edited by KCStudly on Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:42 am

" I'm sure will eventually make it to a gathering somewhere.” .... by the time done , likely the Real craters of the Moon ..... hahahahahahaha Sorry , just making a Funny !!! :lol: :R :beer:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Wolffarmer » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:58 am

Ya, he need to start testing the cabin's pressurization certificate.

Hey. I am just jealous I can't do the quality of work you do.


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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:22 am

Thanks Randy.

This seems appropriate at the moment.
Space Oddity
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby aggie79 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:37 pm

KC,
I just got caught up on your build. Thank you for the detailed epoxy fiberglass demonstrations and experiences. The PCE looks awesome! :thumbsup: :applause: :thumbsup: I think you're in the home stretch now.

KCStudly wrote:This seems appropriate at the moment.
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It's been about two years since I've "...been floating [camping] in my tin can". :M :whistle: Hopefully we'll be able to make some spring gatherings.

Take care,
Tom
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:58 pm

Thanks for checking in, Tom, and thank you for the kind words. Here's hoping that we all get to do some camping next season! :beer:

One of the most important things I have learned about the epoxy and glass is that it is very much like other building materials and techniques in so much as you have to really screw up bad in order to get to a place where you can't fix your screw up. (Thankfully I haven't gone to that place.) Similar to the foam or woodworking, if something doesn't come out the way you want it, just take away, add or change it until it does. Also similar to the foam, but unlike wood or aluminum, because the materials become homogeneous, there doesn't have to be much waste... if you are careful and use good techniques.

I think the worst case would be a total fail to cure on a really big layup, but how would that be any different than, say, cutting your door opening in a 5x10 ft piece of ply and getting it in the wrong place? We can fix anything with the proper application of craftiness and determination; and getting it right (enough) on the first try isn't that difficult with a little practice and care.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Atomic77 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:11 am

Well said... My Dad always said, "The mark of a true Craftsman is how well he can fix his mistakes!" And my version... "A little putty, a little paint, helps make what a carpenter ain't!" Keep up the good work my friend...
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:19 pm

Thanks, Michael.

The cold weather has been discouraging here, so I have been slacking. Even if we get a little warm up during the day, the overnight lows are just too low for epoxy work.

I'm reluctant to handle the big roll of cloth and try to do a bunch of prep cutting. I figure it will be hard enough handling the bigger pieces, let alone having to handle them multiple times.

Next up will be the door jambs, and since they are all wood, I think I'll just do one ply of the 6oz there; just enough to help bind the wood fibers, doesn't need as much armor as the foam.

I might have to go back to working on the axe and shovel mountings in the meantime for fill in work until we get some warmer weather. :NC
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:41 pm

I finally made it out to the shop this evening for the first time in what seems like forever. You should have seen me, a month ago I wouldn't go anywhere w/o my epoxy and glue supplies tote. Without thinking I'd drag it out of the house with me in the morning, load it behind the driver’s seat in the car, drag it into the warmth of my office during the day and haul it with me to Mecca each night. It had become automatic. It's been so long that I haven't been dragging it with me that I got out the door w/o it this morning and had to turn back to get it; forgot to take it in with me when I got to work only remembering at first coffee break; locked my office door and headed out w/o it, had to go back; then got to Mecca, dragged it in and didn't even use any of it. Doh! “Shoulda’ noed better”.

Karl said I hadn't missed anything but the cold.

Anyway, enough kvetching. I decided it was plenty warm enough to work on fabricating some of the small hardware stuff I had already started. So I dug out the stainless steel strips that Karl had sheared for me way back when and started laying out the mounting plates for the high clearance lights. I showed pics of the lights and the sketch of the plate design before. I’ll dig thru and add more pics here shortly, but for tonight what I got done was to layout the hole locations onto the strip and prick punch all of the marks. I laid out five (5) of the plates because that was the number I had noted on the sketch, but just now am realizing that that was the number for the rear lights up on the hatch. I actually need four (4) more for the side lights that I decided to add later. I’ll go thru the whole process in more detail and take more pics tomorrow as I'm laying those out.

We had talked about tooling these, how we could just hand feed them on the iron worker, jig align them on the iron worker, or even write a program for the CNC mill, but tonight Karl was pushing hard for me to let him have these laser cut by a collaborative connection that he has. That would be nice, easy and they would come out nearly perfect; but for just nine (9) of them, and my sense of wanting to “build it myself” I decided to keep this one in house. I may regret that decision before I'm done, but I guess I can always go that way if I change my mind and don't like how they come out. Each one gets seven (7) holes of various sizes punched into them; 2 for mounting the light fixture to the plate from the rear, 3 for wires to pass thru (positive, negative and a clearance hole for what would have been the positive jumper wire to the next light (the original 3-light bars that the red lights came from were daisy chained in series) and 2 for the screws thru the front that will mount the assemblies to the camper. Punching will tend to curl the plates some, so I may have to flatten them back out. Punching will also leave a bit of a dimpled burr on the backs that will have to be sanded or filed flat, so I will do all the punching in strip form and run them thru the Time Saver afterward, if needed.

More details next time. Ta for now.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:49 pm

Recapping a bit, at first I thought I would just add a 3-light bar (needed for vehicles greater than 80 inches wide) somewhere at the back, probably down on the trailer frame. So I bought an LED 3-light bar assembly. After further consideration and review of the NHTSA requirements I decided to do it up properly, placing the 3 lights high up on the hatch with two additional rearward facing lights to the outsides. I decided that rather than having one large “eyebrow” in the middle (a faired bump with vertical rear face so that the lights would aim rearward rather than just sit on the surface of the hatch facing mostly up), and two more to the sides of the hatch, I would much prefer five individual eyebrows (or nacelles). Not wanting to extend my budget out that much further, having already spent money on the 3-light fixture, I decided to deconstruct it by removing the OEM stainless steel mounting strip and finding a way to surface mount the individual light/lens assemblies.

The thin SS mounting plate for the original assembly was draw stamped with a shallow recessed cavity in the back for the wires to run between the lights and for the screw heads that held them from the back. From there I designed “simple” flat stainless steel individual mounting plates. These will cover over the small wire recesses that I have routed where these lights will go, allowing the fixture screw heads and wires to bump out the back; and will extend to the right and left of each light forming tabs for the screws that will mount them to the camper.

Once that was all decided, if I am recalling the sequence of events correctly, I decided to go ahead and add the front and rear high clearance lights to the sides of the camper, as well. The same light is available in both red and amber in a single post mount style w/ SS trim (amber for the front side lights red for the rear sides); the mounting trim is also removable on these. The cost of the 3-light bar is about the same as two of the single mount style, so I can get a spare red included by going that way.

Anyway, like I said, Karl had sheared some strips of .050 thk 304SS for me to make the new mounting plates. Here is my sketch and the strips after I started laying the pattern out.
Image

I’ll lay out all nine (9) of the required plates, plus whatever will fit on the stock “incase-ya” screw up, with allowance for saw cutting them into individual pieces after punching the holes and deburring.

Each plate gets seven (7) holes punched: (2) at 5/32 inch for the screws that hold the light to the plate; (2) at 3/16 for the screws that hold the assembly to the camper; and (3) at 1/4 inch as clearance holes for the wires, one POS, one NEG, and one to isolate the jumper wire from shorting out where the originals were daisy chained (I’ll snip these extra wires off close and pot them with some silicone or liquid electrical tape, but I wanted to be sure they won’t have a chance to touch the mount).

Here are the tools I used. A couple of clamps to hold the strips to the edge of the bench; a layout square (note how the edge of the strip is hanging off the bench a little so that the bench doesn’t interfere with the square); a carbide tipped scribe; measuring tape; prick punch; ball peen hammer; dial caliper; and sharpie marker. Not shown is a leather dead blow hammer and block of wood that will come into play soon.
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Here’s another look at the sketch and back of the light.
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It’s a bit “Primitive Pete”, but you can use the dial calipers as a marking tool to scratch reference lines along the stock. Here you can see the saw cut reference lines and the prick punch marks that will be used to locate the guide points on the hole punches.
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Recall that the front end of Karl’s hydraulically operated iron worker has a hole punch feature, and he has a large selection of different sized punch and die sets.
Image
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Each punch has a little pointy tit on its tip (just like a transfer punch) that registers into the prick punch marks. By releasing the arbor latch you manually lower the punch to align the tip in your mark, and then when you step on the pedal the press catches up and punches the hole.
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The punch will want to drag on the part on the way out. Normally the yellow stripper ears adjacent to the punch would hold the part back and allow the punch to retract, but when working near the edge of a part, or with thin material like this, you need the stripper to support closer to the hole; so this little hand held forked stripper tool is inserted around the punch to support the material around the hole and prevent the whole thing from getting mangled (I would normally hold the tool flat, but I needed a free hand to take the picture… use your imagination).
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I punched the smallest size holes first then progressed to the larger holes based on the rationale that the part would curl from the deformation and the smaller punches would deform less.
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Second set of holes.
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You can see the raised burrs on the back (actually, what would become the fronts), and you can start to see the amount of curl being introduced (although I did do some straightening along the way).
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Last set of holes, lots of curl, back piece partially straightened, both by hand and using the leather mallet over the wood 2x4.
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Once I had the parts fairly flat again we set the Time Saver (huge belt fed belt sander) up. Unfortunately the parts were too thin. The friction from the sanding belt curled the first strip enough that it caught on the rear guard and got caught under the sander, burning things up and making a big divot in the part.
Image

Unfortunately this occurred right in between two of the layouts, taking out two of the three extra pieces.

Okay, we’re going to have to do this the hard way. I clamped the small drop end of the parts to the bench and knocked off the burrs using a 60 grit flap disc on the 4-1/2 inch grinder.
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Now I could test fit a lamp w/o the burrs stripping the insulation on the wires.
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Then I blocked them down some with 80 grit. Not going crazy here, just taking some of the highs down w/o thinning the material down too much.
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To even things out, 100 grit on the dual action (DA) sander. This got down into the low areas to make the finish look more uniform. I didn’t go crazy trying to get every scratch out, because most of the area will be hidden under the light housings; but I did pay a little more attention to the screw tab areas that will be exposed.
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Here I have buffed with a green Scotchbrite pad. Also, you can see that I did all of the final sanding operations on an aluminum plate. I didn’t want to risk dragging iron into the SS from the steel work table. You can quickly contaminate SS to the point where it will rust easily from imbedded iron.
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Before cutting the parts out I shaped the first piece on one end using the remaining stock as a handle. Then I cut the first piece off and used it as a template to scribe onto the next piece. After sanding that piece to shape I cut it off and used the pair to scribe the other end onto each other. I had hoped to maintain symmetry by doing it this way, but I am just not that good using the Bader, especially since Karl never bothers to use a rest and/or vertical platen (which would be my preference and is what I am used to on other sanders).

So now that I had a couple parts with reasonably similar shaped ends, I cut the remaining blanks, stacked and bolted them all together.
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Here’s a reminder of what the Bader looks like. Note the only platen (hard backed surface) is the small backed area at the angled section on top. The other options are slack belt or over the nose of the rubber wheel. There are various attachments and options available, but this setup works for most of Karl’s needs, and I am still trying to adapt.
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With the parts stacked I had an easier time working on edge under the nose of the wheel. Here is an in progress shot cooling things down in some ice packed snow I scooped up from outside.
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Here's a quick 3:45 min video of the sanding operation. I tried to add some narration, which seemed to show up in the Movie Maker app, but wouldn't play back, nor would the soundtrack from the original video feed. Oh well. Here's another friendly tip: it's better not to sand yourself. At one point you'll see me pull my hand back and shake it a bit after nipping a cuticle and part of a fingernail. I was rolling the piece around to knock the burr off and just touched my support hand against the edge of the wheel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYwoihhBGu0&feature=youtu.be <edited with sound levels corrected>

Almost symmetrical.
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After separating the pieces; culling out the one remaining extra piece that ended up a little short; deburring the ends with 100 grit on the small hand block; and buffing again with the greenie, we get these.
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They’re not perfect, but after about 6-7 hours of coercing metal I don’t mind owning them with some small amount of pride.

Dopey me, I forgot to take a picture of a finished mount and light together. Next time.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby tony.latham » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:05 pm

:thumbsup:

T
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby dales133 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:06 am


Thats a beast of a linisher.
Looking good mate.
How many scars?
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:59 am

dales133 wrote:
Thats a beast of a linisher.

It's a versatile tool and definitely has what it takes to get the job done. In my down time I watched a bunch of knife making videos and it seemed to be one of the more popular units for the serious builders.

dales133 wrote:Looking good mate.

tony.latham wrote: :thumbsup:

Thanks! :D

dales133 wrote:How many scars?

Oh, I think I'll live. :lol: :R Probably won't leave a noticeable scar, but it will take a while for the divot in my nail to grow out. It's all part of the deal.

The weather here has warmed up significantly, but with rain. Last night I figured out and marked some reference lines for glassing the door frames, then I mixed up some thickened 5min epoxy and touched up some small divots there.

I marked the jambs in 30 inch increments working from the center top down, leaving a 20 something inch strip centered at the bottom. This made everything symmetrical with all of the butt seams landing on flat sections, rather than in a corner; and will make it easier to lay the strips in shorter pieces. For convenience I'm going to buy a 50 yrd roll of 2 inch wide 9oz woven glass tape (West System Episize). I think that will be neater and easier to work with for these narrow strips. I will also be able to use it on the edges of the doors and along the hatch sealing surfaces of the galley walls.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:40 pm

Monday I did a mockup of the clearance light by attaching one of the red ones to one of the backing plates.
Image
Image
Image

Here’s the front street side blocking as an example of how they will be mounted. The ones on the hatch will have a similar block opening, except they will be backed (fronted?) by the nacelle blisters.
Image

Here’s an idea of what it will look like when mounted, except it would be one of the amber lights at this location, but you get the idea.
Image

With the warmer weather I wanted to keep going with the doorway prep by doing some more pickup fill on the low spots around the flox corner. I mixed up a small amount of 5min with too much filler. It stiffened up too fast and didn’t spread for… well, it didn’t spread well. So I put a little acetone on a rag and scrubbed it back off, being very careful not to “paint outside the lines” of the cedar frame, lest I melt the foam walls. Mixed another batch using less filler and had another go.

Tonight I went by Defender after work and got a 50 yard roll of 2 inch wide 9oz glass cloth tape. I got lucky. I went to the cut goods area where I knew they had the tapes and when I asked for the West System stuff the clerk explained that they had a full roll of the generic stuff that they use for cut-to-order, and if I bought the full roll he could mark it down 10/ct; and it was listed lower than the West System brand to begin with. So I ended up paying only $35 for the roll instead of $54.

Then I spent the rest of the night sanding back the touched up bits and putting some tooth back into the door seal flanges and door surrounds. I’m a little frustrated that I still have some areas that I’d like to touch-up some more. I would have liked to get those done tonight, but it was getting late by that time, the humidity was high (it was pouring rain and is forecast to continue raining all day tomorrow), and I am getting very low on the 5min.

So a little progress, but marching on.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:04 am

Really NICE Clearance lights :thumbsup: 8) :applause: :beer:
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