The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

[KCStudly]

Thank you so much Bonnie.

I am not a body man. And yet I am already learning some techniques. They may not be the best or most efficient techniques, but I’m okay with the results so far. The cost is another thing. Epoxy is not inexpensive and the initial layup is not the end of things. I bought my 4th gallon of epoxy today, plus two more containers of the 410 filler; $179 more over budget. So with the two additional quarts and a partial quart I had left over from another project, that’s over 3-1/2 gallons so far, and I will probably get close to cracking that 4th gallon tomorrow.

I probably won’t use the full gallon to finish, but a quart of resin and hardener costs almost half of what a gallon costs, so it only makes sense to go with the gallons.

Before running down to Defender to resupply, I just about used up the first container of the 410.

But that's getting ahead of things. To start the day I worked on the doors. I used the small paint scrapper to remove any high drips, drops and beads that formed along the edges (the ones I hadn't wiped off sufficiently during application). Then amine wash. This time I spaced the doors up off of the bench using 4x4 cedar blocks wrapped in stretch wrap, so that any water dripping over the edges would fall away and not soak the rosin paper on the far side. Then, after letting the first door dry thoroughly in front of the fan while working on the second door, I used the long board just a bit, maybe two gentle passes over the whole thing. The doors aren’t flat enough, and I hadn’t applied enough filler to get them flat enough for that, but it was a starting point. Next was 100 grit on the medium block. This helped even out the local drag marks from the squeegee. Then it was the same grit on the felt pad of the palm sander. This deglossed/scuffed all of the general low areas that the block didn’t get into and prepped for the next round of fairing filler, except a few small creases/dips that I sanded by hand with a loose piece of 80 grit.

All in all they aren’t bad, and the effort to get them here wasn’t that bad either (it wasn’t as humid today as they had said it might be, but was still quite hot in the loft... I had my cooler with bottled water on ice, so was sure to hydrate frequently). The nuances are lost to the pics, but here’s a look anyway.



So the thing that I am learning is how to apply a thin layer but not so thin (like I did here). I have yet to master the squeegee; my biggest problem seems to be secondary strikes and creating ‘holes’ or creases where the squeegee sets down at the start of a stroke.

I’ll get back to the doors for another round, but was buoyed up enough be the partial success to move on to the roof in earnest. Even though I had done some preliminary fairing at the rear of the roof, I had tried to just fil the weave with no additional filler (except for the laps in the plies that I had tried to fair more evenly). So with Michael’s/Atomic’s mantra and Karl’s advice to add more filler than you think you need (within reason) and then sand back… hopefully in just one round… I started at the back and worked my way up the curb side with two 3-pump batches; this time switching back to the slow hardener, and then another 3-pump batch working across the back to the street side.



Basically if you can still see thru the filler it is probably too thin, so I started to get a feel for it by dragging the initial batch blob around to cover an area, squeegeeing much more lightly, but still working the mass down in places until I could see where I was at, and then back dragging and alternating directions to back fill the areas that were excavated too deeply. There is a happy place in the mix ratio of filler where it is just liquid enough to still spread easily, but is stiff enough that it doesn’t run away; not quite self-leveling.

And that’s where I got before realizing that if I wanted to continue this tomorrow (Sunday) I would need to run out and get more supplies; about 1/2 of the roof done.

[KCStudly]

The weather was nicer today than expected; still 90 in the loft but only 35/ct humidity, so not too bad.

Back to fairing the roof: Since I knew that I would be overlapping where I had filled yesterday, and might even do some touch ups, I started by washing amine. For those of you who may doubt that amine plays much of a roll, pour some water on freshly set epoxy and watch it bead up like it is on wax. Then scrub it around some and after a few moments you will see the water sheet out. That’s when you know the amine has dissolved and you are good to wipe up the water with the paper towels, I reckon. I suppose it might have something to do with breaking the surface tension of the glassy surface with the greenie pad, but I think there is more to it than that.

The greenie doesn’t really scuff the shiny surface enough to give it any tooth, so next I figured I’d use the palm sander to rough up around the edges. Well, of course I started getting carried away sanding all of it, so I switched to the arched long board to see where things were at. Meh. It’s going to need some touch-ups. I’ll go back and hand sand the lows to scuff them out prior to doing that, but for now, after a thorough vacuuming and wipe down, I moved on to filling the rest of the roof.

I think it was 6 cups of 3 pump batches (2.70 oz each). I had been counting scoops of the 410 to try and zoom in on the preferred mixture, but the stuff is clumpy and it was all too easy for the sundae spoon to have varying degrees of heaping. What I found in the end was that if I just scooped in enough to fill my mixing cup loosely to the top (prior to stirring it in), that worked out to be a nice pliable, yet thick enough consistency.

The other learning curve thing I found was that if I stroked the new wet toward the already covered areas, including newly wet areas, and lifted (rather than trying to start in the wet area and drag toward the area to be filled) I didn’t get nearly as many digs and drag marks from the squeegee.



In the first pic you can see the dry sanded area from yesterday in the foreground. The darker spot in the middle of that is where I did a test to see how the touchup process will go. I found it a lot easier to fill a few small low areas surrounded by hard dry, than it was to try and not have any divots in the first place. I’m wondering if a stiffer squeegee might work better. I have some plastic drywall spreaders that I might try.

Doing the walls and all of the jambs is going to be... interesting.

[KCStudly]

Body work. Not my favorite thing.

The sandpaper on the arched long block was too fine to get anywhere fast and the arch has always been a bit shallow for the roof… so I set it on the roof; used the compass to offset and traced a new line along the base of the backer rib, starting and ending flush on the back of the platen and about 1/8 inch up at the middle of the rib. Next I clamped a spacer block to the bandsaw table so that I could cut the rib off.

From there I sanded the cut edge of the rib to match the roof better and shaved the remnant off of the back of the platen using that nice plane that I restored from the tractor swap (I forget the brand at the moment).

When I peeled the sand paper (actually, a piece of fabric backed sanding belt) off of the platen it took some big chunks of the plywood fibers with it. Conveniently, the board seemed to have curled in the opposite direction and, when flipped over, now matched the roof pretty well in the unstressed state.

About this time Karl suggested leaving the rib off. His rationale was that since the roof arch is somewhat inconsistent, allowing the board to float and flex over it would still take the high spots off while conforming to the general irregularity better as a whole. This logic made sense so I glued a piece of coarse belt, I think 60 grit, on the good side of the board and gave that some time to set up. I figured I could put two smaller handles on it but ended up not needing them.

In use the board performed well, better, and seemed to conform to the general shape of the roof arch just fine. And it ripped thru the high stuff a heck of a lot quicker, too, even in broad areas.

So I worked in diagonal strokes transitioning over the whole roof taking the filler back to the point where in any given area if a spot of the weave started to show I would be done there. The idea being to get as many low spots out, leave the least amount of filler necessary to get the job done and not burn thru the glass weave.

This still left several slightly shallow areas where the gloss wasn’t broken, and some smaller digs. So I went over the whole thing again with the palm sander to scuff most everything that was left, vacuuming up dust between each round of sanding.




Without a guide coat it looks pretty decent, but I know that the lows will show, so I think I will drag a touch more filler over it with a spline and have another go at it. I think it will start to go quicker now that I am developing some technique. I’m sure it will never be perfect, I just don’t have the patience for that.

Body work is fickle. You put in the time, and get to the next progression and it looks... a little bit better(???) than it did. How good do you want it to look? How many layers of the onion do you want to peel? Onions aren’t perfect either.

Then I stepped back and estimated that the area of the roof that I have been working on is only about 1/5th of the total surface of the camper, and relatively easy compared to the vertical surfaces and jambs.

We’ll see how far I get before I cry uncle.

On a semi related note, the Dana 35 rear axle in the Jeep has started to make unpleasant noise, and changes tone noticeably when changing from power to coast, suggesting pinion bearing failure. I have a used Super 35 spline axle kit with axles, ARB locker, new bearing install kit and 4.11 gears that I had planned to put in, but now that I will be doing some serious towing with it I would much prefer to upgrade to a Dana 44. I’ve kind of been watching CL for a suitable swap and found an ’04 TJ Rubicon axle out on Long Island. It has some lift kit stuff added on that would have to be undone, and I’d have to source replacement disc brake parts (the Rubi’s all have disc rear brakes, whereas the D35 is drum and the owner swapped all of the brakes parts onto his replacement axle). I think that also requires changing the parking brake cables and the driveshaft probably will need to be shortened about 3/4 inch; but the upside is a much more reliable axle for off road and towing, the proper axle ratio for my tire size and towing (have been suffering with 3.07’s and 31’s for far too long), the disc brake upgrade, factory locker, and it comes with an aftermarket cast diff cover and factory air pump.

So Saturday is a road trip to check it out. Larry offered to loan me his hitch mount cargo tray so I can considering taking the Orient Point Ferry and avoid the extra charges for a UT (I don’t think I can fit the axle in the back of the Ford, and wouldn’t want to tear it up even if it would fit). Even if I drive around thru New Rochelle, the cargo basket would save on the bridge tolls, so I will probably take him up on that either way.

[Ned B]

Psssst: TLAR.

Sorry to hear that the jeep is ailing. Lori's Escape is waiting for our son the mechanic to replace the carrier bearing... No labor just parts... But anything over $500 and its approaching book value. Hmmmm. Still cheaper to fix than replace though. Take pics if you can, the ferry crossing sounds interesting!

[KCStudly]

Thanks Ned. I still haven't decided on the ferry. Pro's = less driving time, maybe a pleasant ferry ride, avoids the urban/high traffic areas of southwest CT and NYC, and no tolls. Con's = expensive ($55 each way, goes up to $97 each way with the utility trailer), not really a time saver by the time you arrive early, get loaded, add in the transit time, and get unloaded, better to make reservations (save $5 and have a known spot) but then you're at the mercy of the ferry schedule (either rushing to be on time or sitting around killing time waiting).

The body work will figure itself out. Right now I am just trying to see what it will take to "do it right". Call it a personal challenge as I have never done proper body work on anything. I figure I can still bail out and leave the rest rougher and you would be less likely to notice the roof is smoother because most of it will be above most peoples eye level anyway. Better to try and fail there than on the sides or hatch.

Still, Karl has forebodingly predicted that I am on a path to an automotive quality finish. I still deny that.

[GPW]

Karl, the sole voice of reason .... grasshopper ...

[KCStudly]

He has been very beneficial to my build.

In other news, the Magruder is open again.

[Ned B]

What's 'the Magruder'. ??

[Wolffarmer]

What's 'the Magruder'. ??

It is a road in Idaho. Goes over some mountains, through forests and some pretty remote areas. Very back country.

Randy

[Ned B]

Thanks Randy!

[ghcoe]

Magruder.....! Also home of Poet Creek Campground....
http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsint ... 20Corridor

[KCStudly]

"Primitive mountain road. Some one-lane only. Some steep. Some areas slippery in rain and snow. Trailers not recommended. This is a primitive road not maintained for winter travel.
CAUTION: Logging traffic from junction with Road 1172 (Soda Creek) to Road 222 (Elk City/Dixie Road)
CAUTION: Large boulder protruding into roadway between Dry Saddle and Sabe Saddle w/ clearance of 7 to 8 feet."

The first part of the above is the std. boiler plate comment that is always present on the Forest Service update page.
Those last two lines are current status warnings. There are frequent landslides, downed trees, and threats of forest fires from the many lightening strikes that come with high elevation (... and A-holes that don't mind there fire safety guidelines... no fireworks, no open fires/use fire rings, leave fire pits dead out, etc.).

The road just opened today after a couple of months spent repairing a section of the road that was threatening to slide off of one of the many areas that have no shoulder to abyss (maybe I exaggerate a little for dramatic affect).
It will be an adventure, for sure.

Just got home from Long Island with D44 axle and diff parts in hand.

[KCStudly]

Once you get thru the Jeep axle talk, this is somewhat of a mini trip report with pictures (as requested).

So I got a little side tracked here, but it’s all part of the cause. The Jeep is the intended TV for the big Poet Creek trip and the rear axle is making unhappy bad diff bearing noises. It’s a weak Dana 35 with 3.07 gears that are way too tall for the 31 inch tires that are on it, requiring more clutch to get going and only allowing the use of 5th gear on dead flat or down hills; not at all good for any hardcore off roading or towing.

So the options are to rebuild the existing axle with 4.10 gears, an ARB air actuated locker (that would require an onboard air system) and 35 spline axle shafts; but it would still be a weak D35 housing. (They tend to break at the axle tube to center housing joints.) This would take the Jeep down for some period of time and would more likely mean doing the delicate gear set-up under the vehicle.

The impetus for upgrading to a Dana 44, a much stronger axle assembly, is that if I wanted to look for and buy a swap axle (that is, an axle already set up with a locker and 4.10 gears, or one that I could rebuild on the bench and then install in a day or two) why would I bother with another D35?

So now find one, ideally a stock one from a TJ Rubicon. They already have 4.10 gears, are nearly a bolt in affair (except on zero or low lift Jeeps… like my 1-3/4 inch spacer lift… I probably will have to shorten the rear drive shaft by 3/4 inch) and already have a factory air locker (a low pressure unit that has a very small and compact pump that gets mounted underneath the vehicle). A few years ago everyone was plucking their TJ axles out and updating them to aftermarket stuff, or ‘tons’ (Dana 60’s) and you could find lots of them as take outs in front and rear pairs. Now they are fewer in between with everyone moving to JK’s, which are still D44’s, but 5 inches wider, have a different wheel bolt pattern, and are not at all a bolt-in.

I have been checking Tempest for a couple of weeks and this was the only one to pop up in a reasonable driving distance. It is from an ’04 Rubicon, the last of the TJ’s. The previous owner (PO) was running much larger tires with more lift and had swapped in 5.13 gears. The original rear locker that he removed is supposedly a limited-slip (LS) when unlocked. I’m not sure if this is typical for all Rubicons or if it was a less common option, but it was part of the package deal. The diff that is currently installed is a front non-LS Rubicon locker, but the spider gears are broken (pinion spins the ring gear and axles over nicely, but when you turn both axles in opposite directions you can feel it skip and jump over the missing teeth on the spiders). He said he installed it because they are supposed to be stronger than the LS style locking diffs. I guess not strong enough for his wide gumbo 35 inch mud tires, but surely on upgrade for my much smaller 31 inch (stock Rubicon size) all terrains.

The rear drive shaft on a 2-door Jeep is fairly short due to the short wheelbase, so when lifted very much you usually have to switch to a double cardan style of constant velocity drive shaft. That means that you have to run adjustable link arms and rotate the axle so that the pinion is in align with the driveshaft. So this axle has an add-on drag link bracket that accommodates 3 inches of lift and some tilt. It is bolted on thru the original drag link bolt hole (with an anti-crush sleeve), a couple of other bolts drilled thru the factory bracket, and a small weld bead across the bottom; easy to remove.

Also to accommodate this tilt, the lower shock mounts are a weld on modification kit that moves the shock mounts out and down slightly to gain clearance from the spring buckets. This is a beefy add, so if it is compatible with my lift shocks it will stay.

The picture in the ad showed the axle with a nice cast “Solid” brand diff cover, but when I got there the axle had a stock sheet metal cover. However, instead, he included a NIB bearing shim and seal setup kit with good quality Timken brand bearings and new seals of equal value.

He threw in both sets of the original 4.10 gears and, lastly, dove under his Jeep to pull the rear air pump off for me. The gears look to be in really good shape.

The axle shafts were already unbolted, so we pulled those out so that I could see the splines, and they looked good, too. There was a little bit of water in the end of one of the axle tubes that probably got by the half stuffed bearing, but there wasn’t any rust with plenty of lube oil film present (again, the axle shafts had been pulled when he took the brake parts off to swap onto his aftermarket replacement axle assembly, and just hadn’t been stuffed all the way back in). So the unit hadn’t been sitting out very long.

So the package ended up being the axle assembly with shafts and cover, but no brake parts, missing axle retention nuts… didn’t think to ask, no vent fitting and no brake line bracket; a LS air locker; the pump; three gear sets (the pair of 4.10’s, plus the 5.13’s in it); and another broken, but potentially repairable, air locker. He was asking $800, I offered 6 and we settled on 7.

I mentioned to my coworker/fellow jeeper friend Larry that I was trying to decide between taking the ferry or driving around with the utility trailer in tow, and the added cost that comes from that, and he offered to loan me one of his three hitch mount cargo baskets. This one is designed for a mobility scooter and has a folding ramp gate, but when folded back flat it didn’t get in the way. Problem solved!


On the way there I drove around thru the Broncs, across the Throgs Neck Bridge, onto the Cross Island Parkway (something I would not have been allowed to do with the trailer) and out the LIE; a little more fuel, an $8 bridge toll, but no waiting.

For the ride back I decided to avoid the traffic and take the Orient Point Cross Sound Ferry from the east tip of Long Island back to New London. I stopped along the way at a nicely located golf course and had BBQ ribs in the club house (decent ribs but too much sauce).

That put me at the ferry slip just as the 3 o’clock ferry was leaving, so I had to sit and wait for an hour. Nice day to take a peek at the beach there next to the ferry slip with the Orient Point lighthouse in the distance.



The ferries are converted WWII LST landing craft.



A fellow passenger was in a built up/kitted out VW Syncro bus with front winch and rear tube bumpers, a roof rack cargo carrier, a fold down grill table next to the spare tire, bigger tires, and some fat tired mountain bikes on the rear; adventure here we come!


The ferry load deck.


This particular LST-510 had an Omaha Beach D-Day pedigree. There was also a picture of the D-Day officers and crew onboard before the invasion.


As my mom likes to say, it was HHH (hot, hazy and humid) and these last few pics were taken with my cell phone.

A little closer look at the Orient Point Lighthouse as we passed by.


Coming into New London we passed the Block Island Express Ferry.


And finally, New London. The big white blob down on the waterfront is another one of the Orient Point ferries getting ready to leave.


Tomorrow I’ll unload the stuff and see about sourcing disc brake parts. Maybe pop the busted diff out and get everything that needs to go to the press ready to drag to work with me on Monday.

Gear oil and bodywork don’t mix, but I need to get this done before the D35 blows up.

[KCStudly]

Forgot to mention that I had a TD spotting yesterday (Saturday). It was a lightly colored woody, rounded front roof, flat (or flat-ish) roof slopping back sharply to a very short vertical back wall, spotted going northbound on I95 somewhere between NY and New Haven. Didn't catch the TV but think it was a dark colored SUV or mid-size PU with a cap on it, maybe a Toyota. Looked to be built on a 4x8 kit trailer with stock fenders and 12 inch white spoke steel wagon wheels.

[KCStudly]

I forgot to mention that the D44 has pressed on axle bearings with bearing retainer plates, whereas the D35 has C-clips. If you break an axle on the D44 the wheel will generally stay attached to the vehicle, whereas if you break an axle on the D35 the wheel and what's left of the axle shaft will likely part ways with the vehicle.

A little online surfing found that there is an aftermarket kit from Terraflex that contains all of the brake parts required to convert from drums to discs, so everything that I am missing (including the parking brake cables) except for the shorter hard brake lines. Unfortunately it costs almost what I paid for the axle and there would be a good chance that my existing 15 inch wheels (the same ones that I bought extras to match on the trailer) would not clear the brake calipers.

On the other hand, I can swap to the drum brake style axle retainer plates and reuse my stock drum brakes and wheels. We recently replaced the drums and shoes so they’re in good shape. I had intended to freshen up the axle bearings and seals anyway and can buy a pair of service kits that include the axle bearing, seal, bearing retainer ring, and drum brake axle retainer plates for $50 each from Summit (ordered today). Just have to plan ahead and include the correct plate when pressing the bearings back on. That solves the parking brake cable issue, too.