The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby bonnie » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:50 am

KCStudly wrote:Thanks Eagle. I think a small test piece is a good idea when I get closer to that step. I need to start thinking about sourcing canvas and the sequence of applying finishes.

Stain first or the mixture; mix stain in with the mixture(?); where to leave raw wood for assembly glue; when to apply stain/protection vs. assemble, and on and on.


I am in awe. You do great work. I really appreciate your posts and pics. On and on will be done and doing soon enough. I know I look forward to your updates
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby linuxmanxxx » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:59 am

If you hit the surface with a belt sander it will match foam and wood places and smooth and it's fast! I did that before covering this last one with formica and it laid smooth and clean.

For sizing is a thorn I haven't perfected after 4 builds. It seems to shrink as structure is added and I can't figure why. If you prebuild your doors and frames, make sure you can easily shave meat from the outer perimeter to adjust for the canvas/paint swell.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby wagondude » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:13 am

Haven't chimed in for a while, but I'm still watching. For a guy who claimes to not be a wood worker, you are doing some mighty fine crafting there. I especially like the way you are doing the corners of your door opening. That will be very strong. I don't have the words to express my awe at you frame fabrication. It's almost a shame to put a camper on top of it. Maybe you should have built a glass bottom trailer so people could look at the frame.

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Facemeltingly Epic » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:41 am

wagondude wrote:For a guy who claimes to not be a wood worker, you are doing some mighty fine crafting there.


Perhaps KC is taking extra care on the wood work because he's "not a wood worker"?

I had only the most basic woodworking and carpentry skills when I began my build. It shows in a few places, but I learned plenty along the way and I know enough now that when I build my next trailer I can put a little more into aesthetics. I will definitely keep the previous observation about "shrink" in mind on my next build; I remember spending over two hours on one side door because I sized it too close to the opening and it wouldn't fit with the edge moldings in place.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:10 pm

Wow, thanks everyone for the kind comments and support. It is reassuring to know that you all are still watching and enjoying.

Last night when I got home I stashed the maple for the face frames in my basement for now (for temperature stability).

This morning after I slept in a bit and Yvette got back from her morning workout (Jazzercise) we had a nice breakfast out at our favorite diner Somewhere In Time

Then took the 1x4 white pine out to Mecca and cut all of the wall blocking (at least the ones I have worked out so far). There's a couple at 46" for the galley bulkhead, a couple at 30" for the fenders, a couple at 7 inches for the porch lights, and 14 per side at 3-1/2" for all of the ends of the cabinet "spars" or rails that span from wall to wall (such as the top and bottom of the face frames and the back of the cabinet floor ledgers).
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Then I switched to laying out and dry fitting the wall sills and door surround frames. The second wall sill is in the foreground.
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Here's a longer shot from up on the stairs. You can see the extra 1x2 block dry fit back in the galley area. This is for the ice chest glides to screw into; the hole pattern on the glides I have selected would have been marginal in just the 2x2 sill. The sill was left long and will eventually be trimmed to match the curved laminated wall cap rails that I built earlier.
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Here are the stainless steel door hinges that I mentioned previously.
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The screws go into the jambs and are inaccessible when the door is closed, adding security, and, just like the Jeep, they lift off.
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So after dry fitting the door surround, which involved some fine work with the chisel making sure all of the corner blocks fit tight and the joints would pull up tight, then checking that it would come up square (it did), and laying out the biscuit locations, I had to figure out how to make everything work with the width of the biscuit slot cutter shoe. It was wider than the 3-1/2 inch wide dado's in the sill. So the cutter has a depth setting adjustment that accommodates 'M', '20', '10' and '0' size biscuits. The little dial on the side of the jointer has little half round slots in it of varying length that set the depth that the blade can extend out of the housing. By measuring the lengths of the slots I could tell that the difference between the 'M' and '0' was the same 1/4 inch as the dado. So if I set the jointer on the 'M' setting for the slot at the bottom of the dado it would come out the same as the '0' setting on the corner block. Here's a pic.
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Here's the adjuster knob on the jointer. If you look closely you can see the slots on the knob that receive the depth control rod on the jointer fence.
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And here are the resulting slots in the wall sill dado.
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All of the biscuit joints were made using the same stacked technique as before, first cutting off of the table at 3/8 inch, then adding the 3/4 inch spacer and cutting another slot on top. So there are two biscuits at each location.

For the biscuits in the rabbets in the tops and bottoms of the door jambs I used nice fat '20' size biscuits and just held the jointer shoe into the notch of the rabbet and plunged.
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This meant that the slot ran out the end, so I had to cut the biscuits down using the "Bob Vila" cutters. The Bob Vila cutters have a long replaceable razor blade on one jaw and a soft plastic pad on the other. They were pitched in television ads for Sears by Bob Vila and make great cutters for making square cuts in poly tubing and small diameter hose, shrink wrap, etc. They also work well for cutting biscuits.
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This is Karl's pair, but I have a set at work that I also use often. You can also see the slots cut into the end of the jamb, aligned to the outside edge. This corresponds to slots that I cut in the wall sill and door header next to the corner blocks. So each corner block/jamb end gets 6 biscuits; two stacked in the sill dado and adjoining corner block; two cut down stacked in the corner block to jamb; and two stacked in the end of the jamb mating with the sill or header.

I want these door surrounds to be solid, square and stable. I want the seals to run true and to seal well.

Measured and dry fit the cooler glide block, marking for double stacked biscuits every 6 inches.
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Here it is glued and clamped.
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And then I moved on to the door surround and glued that up.
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Came out within 1/32 inch on the diagonals (1/64th from square) with no outside influence or adjustment.

I owe a lot of this success and accuracy to the sawyer work that Rover Mike did. So this is a good time to shamelessly plug his business.
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So that was about 5 hrs work. Jeff (the concrete artist, photographer, friend I mentioned earlier) had invited us out for food and fun. So up the road a piece we went. Had some funky locally made Watermelon Ale.
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Jeff built this smoker/BBQ grill.
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It's set into the hillside next to his "Grotto" (which is an arched stone recessed Koi fountain) with a stone patio and fire pit in front. Sorry, no pic of the Grotto. The steps on left allow him to climb up to the chimney.

The smoker has a cast iron fire box with a grill on top under an arched hood. The hood feeds the tile chimney. Jeff hangs ribs, brisket, corned beef, whatever under the chimney cap down in the flue and builds the fire in the cast iron stove fire box. When done smoking he simply shovels the coals up under the grill and can reheat or grill using the same set up.

Here's the result. Yummmm.
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There was also a delicious cold orzo salad with tomato, shredded carrot, Greek olives and herbs, and brats simmered in beer with kraut and horseradish mustard on a nice soft roll. Chris (Karl's wife) brought fresh berries sliced and macerated in sugar with short cakes and whipped cream.

Had a nice visit with Jeff and his neighbors who gave me a tour of their class C Toyota RV. Box was about 6x9 plus the over cab bed, standy with range/oven, fridge, shower/potty, sofa and dinette for two. Nice little RV. They've been all over in it, from the Florida keys to Alaska, to northern Maine. A pleasant and relaxing time was had by all.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:48 am

KC , about those blocks ... you’d be better served by cutting the blocks into triangles , where the grain runs 45 deg. to each edge ... the other part of the block only adds extra weight and really does nothing ... If I’m off as to purpose , please forgive ...

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby pappaw » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:14 am

wow thats a lot of work, but it will sure be nice :thumbsup:

cheers :beer:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:47 pm

GPW, the blocks are just rough for now. They will be rounded to an inside radius using the router, like in the picture of the plan above. I had thought about running the grain diagonally but it seemed like more trouble than it would be worth (...which many of you are probably thinking about my whole build.) I find myself sometimes wondering, “why didn’t you just build a 4x4x8 box out of plywood?” and slap it on a (insert you favorite 4x8 bolt together trailer in a box here).

Thank you, pappaw. I sure hope that it comes out as nice as I hope it will. There's still a bunch of fitting and finishing left to do, and the further I get the more nervous I become worrying that something will go drastically wrong. But in the end, either way, it will just be a glorified box to sleep in. How far off can it be?

Thank you all for following along and keeping me motivated!
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:21 pm

KC , being a “woodworker” and an aircraft builder (amongst other things ) , the maximum strength in a gusset like this is with the grain , blocks only split the other way under stress... A little bit extra trouble , but well worth it considering all you have “Invested” ... :roll: And you save half the weight .... as with anything, it’s the Little things that add up ...
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:30 pm

The blocks are not there for structural support, that's what the foam and plywood skin is for. Most of what you see will be cut away into a radius. There will be very little gusseting effect, just filler.

Read on and you will see the templates I made this evening for routing the door surround and door frame corners.

Broke down all of the clamps and peeled the waxed paper off of the wall frame work. Scraped down all of the excess glue, and kissed the uneven areas ever so lightly with the bench plane. Sanded everything just a bit with the little oak sanding block, and chiseled the excess biscuits flush in the corners.
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I had originally thought that the black staining was from the steel table, but the waxed paper seemed to be intact, so I am now wondering if it is from the waxed paper itself. I'll go back to using the coated freezer paper and see if that makes a difference.

The frame is very light weight and it was just easier to position it upside down on the door header to make it easier to chisel the biscuits there.
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Then I switched gears and laid out a router template for the inside radius for the door surround onto a piece of scrap luan underlay.
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Used a set of dividers to score the radius, then darkened it with pencil, then scored with razor knife. Cut it out using a combination of the panel saw and the jig saw. Laid out the door frame corner outside radius (1/4 inch different) on the drop piece. Used a combination of the Surform rasp/grater and the small sanding block to tune this up. By tracing the template onto a piece of paper, flipping the template over and aligning it to the same tracing and retracing it, I could find the areas that were not symmetrical and work this a bit more.
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When the lines became more or less one I was happy.
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These templates will be attached flush to the door surround corners and the door frame corners (yet to be built) while flush cutting the corner blocks.

Kind of a light duty night, but still put in 3 hours of forward progress. :thumbsup:
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby bonnie » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:30 am

Wow, that's coming along. This is such a fun build to watch.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:06 am

bonnie wrote:Wow, that's coming along. This is such a fun build to watch.


Thank you, Bonnie. :worship: I do appreciate the kind comments ever so much. Helps to justify the effort and time spent documenting. :? :frightened:
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby RandyG » Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:43 pm

Your build is the only thing I get on the site for, at the moment. You do things differently than others, not wrong or right but different. I think it's the machinist mentality, welders have "THAT" way of looking at a solution. Keep it up but still take your time, building is the funnest part!
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:05 pm

RandyG wrote:Your build is the only thing I get on the site for, at the moment.


Wow, that's some pretty high praise, RandyG. I'm a little touched by that. :)

Of course there are many that would call me "touched" all of the time. :shock: :? ;)

Okay, time to get the heck out of Dodge and roll on out to Mecca. :twisted:
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:20 pm

Not much progress. Seems to happen when I'm trying to figure out how to do something.

I double checked my door corner templates by tracing them onto a piece paper and then swinging an arc over the tracing using the dividers. Seemed pretty uniform, so I went ahead, aligned the door surround template and traced each location with the template.

Used the cordless jig saw (nice!) to cut the corner blocks up to the line.
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Then I used the carpet double backed tape to attach the template. Wish I had a top bearing flush cutting bit for the router.

Since that standard bottom bearing bit has an area between the cutter tip and the bearing, and I am using 3/16 thick templates not 1/4, the bearing has to ride at least half way down on the template to cut the lower edge fully. The actual cutter length remaining is not enough to complete the cut (where the blade edge ends on the cutter hub, the hub does not cut and becomes a hindrance. I had to make one pass, not getting all the way to where the bearing would ride on the template (despite cutting very close to the line with the jig saw), the then change the depth so the bearing would ride on the freshly cut surface, taking the rest of the initial cut; then readjust the depth and cut again with the bearing riding on the template, then readjust and finally complete the cut. Not to mention that each time I placed the template I would have to flip the part over and apply it to the under side.

With a top bearing flush cutter, or even a guide collar, I would have been able to apply the template on top (not having to flip the big somewhat awkward part so many times), make an initial pass, extend the cutter some and run it again to complete the cut. Anyway, here is the first door surround after routering to the template.
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Karl thinking up better techniques to suggest that I try, and being skeptical about canvas skin and it's ability to hold my fenders with only a wooden block glued into foam and covered with paint and canvas. Non believer! :x
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Of course I jest. Karl has been a constant source of good ideas, superior fabrication techniques, and moral support.

Seemed to have lost the pic. Karl recommended that I use the cut away piece of corner block as a backer for sand paper to smooth the routed radius. Used the staple tacker (carefully) to tack a piece of sand paper to the curved block and it worked like a charm. Will get a new pic of that tomorrow.

Stopped short of completing the routering in the hopes of getting a top bearing router bit. Moved on to test fitting the door opening, a nice roomy 32 wide by 42 high.
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From this position I was able to easily roll back, lift my knees (with heavy steel toed boots on) and turn into "the cabin" laying down on the bench and having Karl judge my position relative to the front end and the extra ice chest slider blocking (representing the back of the galley wall. Had to scootch forward just a tad for foot room. Then I sat up, pulled up knees and turned legs out the door again. I ended up in the door surround with my shoulder closer to the aft jamb, but still lots of room to be comfortable. PPPPPP (the 6 P's).

On the way home I stopped at the orange box to look for the proper bit and came up empty. Had a moment of Deja Vu, because I had done this before with the same result. (Yukon Cornelius - taste taste taste "Nothing".)

As soon as I post this I am ordering a top bearing bit for future reference :thumbsup: , but will slog through tomorrow with the bottom bearing one. :thumbdown:
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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