Delamination Lamentation

[KennethW]

KenW, did you reinforce the bolt areas? Would glueing the fender washers be a good idea? 2nd question, did you run the FRP to the edge, or did you glue foam to foam?

I glued foam to foam. The FRP does not glue very well to foam without expensive 3M water base contact cement. Just use PL over your canvas.
I did not reinforce the bolt areas I think going thru the FRP is enough.
Bolting is a little tricky because of the location of the hole in the trailer you may have to drill new holes on the inside edge on the frame so the bolts don't end up under the walls.
If you get right on it you will get it camp-able. you would have to finish the painting later. Hope for hot and low humidity !

[KennethW]

Just the shot of the bottom on page 2 ... Around 6" or so wrapped underneath should do it ... just make SURE the under wrapping canvas is THOROUGHLY and Completely saturated with glue ...
Still think a Drip Edge is now a necessity on any trailer ...

She will be wrapping the under floor canvas up the sides. 6" to 8" should be good (2 over the edge of the floor and 4" on the wall)
She should be able to use the FRP trimmings glued with PL for a drip edge.
Gary what would you glue the canvas to the painted side walls with? I am thinking titebond II.

[GPW]

Quote: “ so the bolts don't end up under the walls. “ ... We quickly realized this , and later (hindsight) thought we could have just added another PT 2X4 frame brace across the trailer for the attachment , leaving lots of room for the bolts ... and BIG washers...

Ken , I see now !!! Frp drip edge ... Good Idea !!!

[KennethW]

Quote: “ so the bolts don't end up under the walls. “ ... We quickly realized this , and later (hindsight) thought we could have just added another 2X4 frame brace across the trailer for the attachment , leaving lots of room for the bolts ... and BIG washers...

Ken , I see now !!! Frp drip edge ... Good Idea !!!

But then you would have wood again. I would go with plastic deck boards instead.

[Talia62]

Best no tubes at all, still looking for the Perfect floor material ...

Trex tongue and groove decking would be perfect, except for the weight.

[KennethW]

Just drill 8 5/16 holes on the inside edge would be the easiest way.

[GPW]

T, Maybe that extra weight is not so objectionable because it’s low on the trailer keeping the CG low and stable ...
The only reason I’m onto “boards" for flooring is , The floor on my All Steel cargo Trailer is still in GREAT shape , although it has NOTHING applied on the bottom , and it’s at least 20 years old ... BUT the way it’s built , the sides extend beyond the floor into a natural Drip edge ... That may be the secret ... and it’s certainly proving effective on the FoamStream ... I’m actually washing it ... underside stays DRY !!!

So far , experimenting with OSB flooring , that is also affected by consistent wetness, but doesn’t ”run or wick” and only affects a small area , usually on the edges ..
Unlike plywood , the tubes are short and end in glue ... water can only wick so far ... It’s Heavy , and maybe not the perfect material , but it’s a darn sight more reliable than plywood ... SO FAR !!! I fully believe the preference for plywood is mostly a Superficial one , only because it’s “PRETTY” for the traveling woodworkers who like to show off their craft at social camping gatherings ... and we know in life , anything PRETTY , requires Much more care and maintenance although not functioning any better than Plain ...

[bonnie]

Update. Rained all last week. Will tent camp this weekend and then begin again on the camper. I have a friend coming in for four days to help with the camper.


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[tony.latham]

So far , experimenting with OSB flooring , that is also affected by consistent wetness, but doesn’t ”run or wick” and only affects a small area , usually on the edges ..
Unlike plywood , the tubes are short and end in glue ... water can only wick so far ... It’s Heavy , and maybe not the perfect material , but it’s a darn sight more reliable than plywood ... SO FAR !!! I fully believe the preference for plywood is mostly a Superficial one , only because it’s “PRETTY” for the traveling woodworkers who like to show off their craft at social camping gatherings ... and we know in life , anything PRETTY , requires Much more care and maintenance although not functioning any better than Plain ...

GPW:

I don't use exterior grade plywood for my floors because it's pretty (It's under the mattress). I use it because of it's structural integrity and what happens if it gets wet. (It doesn't because water doesn't get in my teardrops and if it did, it is sealed and the glue is unaffected since I use exterior grades.)

OSB? I consider it junk. The stuff was created to save an average of $700 for new home construction––not to increase construction quality. I had a shed that was sheathed and roofed with the stuff. That crap is the only wood product I can get to rot in this high desert country where I live. I tore it off (in pieces) and used exterior plywood sheathing. It'll be good for a generation or two. (The new siding is sealed on the bottom with The Mix to prevent moisture wicking from melting snow and of course it's primed and painted, just like the siding on my wooden house.)

And although my wife and I spend 25-30 nights a year in our teardrop, we've never been to a social gathering. So my preference for building with wood must lay somewhere else. Do I like to show off photos of our varnished interior on this forum? You bet, but that's not my motivation for using it. Our teardrop that has considerable plywood in it is listed in our wills and will be utilized long after we're permanently camped out.

"requires Much more care and maintenance" You're right. Last fall the wife put another coat of poly on the galley counter. She'll probably do it again in two years. It's a 30-45 minute job. I don't foresee any other maintenance other than perhaps buff the aluminum out...

Here's what the wood industry says about plywood vs. OSB and water:

http://parr.com/weekend-warriors/plywoo ... is-better/ Summarized: "Plywood’s Superior Wet Performance"

The reason I'm positing this isn't to be argumentative; It's in case a new builder reads this and heads the wrong direction.

You can't lump all plywoods (exterior, marine, or interior grades) in the same bucket. But if you do, fill it with water and throw a hunk of OSB in.

Tony

[GPW]

QUOTE: “ When plywood gets wet, it tends to swell consistently across the sheet, and then returns to its to normal dimensions as it dries out. “ Oh really ... we’ve never seen that here in Humidity Heaven... ( we’ve seen too many of these “Industry” studies (?) to believe anything anymore ) Plywood here gets wet and delaminates across the sheet , puffed and never returns , even if you use weight (Newton clamps) and heat .... Perhaps we are not talking about the same materials ... All the < 50.00 a sheet EXTERIOR plywood we bought and used , failed ... the OSB (or whatever we bought ??? ) has lasted 2 years living Outside already and is still in great shape ... As a test I’ve had a leftover 3/4 sheet outside leaning up against the All steel cargo trailer , out in the open , it does get wet and rained on , and yet although a bit dirty is not falling apart , or crumbling .... I’ll see if I can find some numbers on it , we wouldn’t want the new guys to buy the wrong stuff eh ... Regrettably we’re not well off enough (retired!) to build a proof of concept project with specialized everything proof > $150.00 /sheet plywood we’ve seen at the local specialty lumber yard... I’m sure it must work much better than the cheap HD stuff I tried ...
Probably explains my new yearnings to try a “Board floor” ...
Everybody has their own ideas of what works ...and what doesn’t ... “ It's in case a new builder reads this and heads the wrong direction. “ ...Perish the thought !!! .... it’s why we always advise TESTING ALL the materials first ... We came here and first thing immediately headed in the wrong direction and built a plywood trailer that started to fail after 6 months , not because of the design or construction , but because the bent TD plywood roof developed tension cracks and promptly delaminated... although seriously sealed and painted ... Had that been skinned over with a fabric suitable for absorbing the surface tension loads , it would Not have happened at all ... lesson learned, the hard way ... Wouldn’t want anybody to repeat my mistakes , why I’ve hung around here so long ...

Being Retired and my camping days are long over , we have only tried to provide the good folks with a THRIFTY Alternative to camping or EVAC... Better than a tent , Cheaper (and less maintenance than an RV) Not investing the Big bucks , and not requiring a fancy shop , Tools , or exotic materials or building skills, and certainly nothing TOXIC ... That’s the direction I’m going in ... Anything that will make it work better ... hey , I’m All for that !!! Thanks Ton’ !

[KCStudly]

I think we have to remember that we are talking two extremes here.

Tony lives in the high (near) desert where it is typically dry, and builds using more expensive techniques (epoxy, ply with water proof glues, and aluminum skins) trying to get the "best" result. Yes this takes certain safety precautions and extra effort to work with these materials.

GPW lives in the humid south, and tries to optimize his tight budget by picking the best techniques and materials that get the job done "better" for his situation. After a lot of exposure to numerous chemicals, or if particularly sensitive, epoxy is not an option for some.

There is some OSB on the market today that is claimed to be waterproof. The brand I'm somewhat familiar with is called Advantech. It is heavy. I believe this may be due to the higher glue to wood ratio over regular plywood. I understand GPW's reasoning that the fibers are short and less likely to migrate moisture; that is sound reasoning, in theory.

On the other hand, where I work they used this as an underlay for a supposedly water tight plastic snap lock tile flooring system in a wash down area... and it failed miserably. Turned to mush. Now that was a scenario where water got to it and had no where to go, but I can see both sides of the... let's call it a discussion.

So we can all get along.

If you can afford it, are willing to take the extra precautions, and want to go the extra mile for longevity, epoxy is your friend.

If you are on a tight budget and just can't justify the cost, make sure that you "dot your I's and cross your T's" when it comes to your material selection and waterproofing schedule... do your own research and testing, soak it good with your preferred water proofing, address every chink in the armor, consider drip edges, inspect and air out regularly... really, all things that we all should do anyway; and be prepared for maintenance no matter how easy of hard it may be. You can make it last a good long time, maybe longer. Maybe. Even very experienced builders have had failures.

"You pays your (money*) and you takes your choice."

*substitute blood sweat and tears, either way.

It's all good.

Peace.

[bonnie]

Well said.


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[tony.latham]

So we can all get along.

KC:

One of the great things about this forum is that we do all get along.

As stated, I wasn't trying to be argumentative. Perhaps my post sounds that way. So, if I sound like a duck and walk like a duck, I sincerely apologize.

Tony

[bonnie]

We all do get along. I enjoy seeing all view points. I really do.


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[KCStudly]

I've said it many times before. It is a byproduct of this mode of communication where there are a lot fewer ways to judge a persons mood and intent; no body language to observe, no facial affects, no voice tone.

It's easy to misinterpret or wrongly infer. I find myself "checking" myself from time to time. Sometimes our emotions have us running head long straight past "Go", especially when we are confident or passionate about a thing.

It's all good. We are friends here.