Thrifty Alternatives ..Building Foam Campers

[TJinPgh]

I wasn't suggesting that TB2 was overly expensive. Just saying that, depending on how many layers of paper you need to achieve your desired strength, it could possibly get pricey by the time you were done.

Diluting it out would certainly help with the cost.

How many square feet does a gallon of TB2 normally cover, undiluted? Then figure out how many layers of paper you're going to need.

Again, not saying it won't work. Just saying some tests would need to be done to figure out how many layers of various types of paper would be needed. That will ultimately determine how economical it would be.

If you end up needing 5 or 6 layers of newspaper and a coat of glue in between each layer then, even if the newspaper is free you may end up spending more on glue than you would with a different skin.

Like I said, you'd just need to do tests and figure it out.

[GPW]

TJ , I used 25% T2 to 75% water and it still stuck my canvas and old bedsheets down very well ... Just more thrifty ... Easier to work too ...
We always thinned our glue waaay down for paper mache projects in the past ... Once the water’s evaporated , just all glue left ...

[TJinPgh]

True. Although, it's worth pointing out that there is no real strength requirement to paper mache.

At any rate, once gain, I'm not saying it wouldn't work. Just saying that tests would need to be done to determine any over-all cost benefit.

As an aside, though, given how the sales of newspapers have been in the tank for the last several years, I'd be curious to know if a lot of people still have an abundance ofthem laying around.

I suppose my parents still get the daily paper, though. Although, given the size of our local paper it would probably take a good two years before one could save up enough newspaper to do multiple layers on a tear of any size.

If you can go around the neighborhood and get everybody else's it might be time effective as well.

[GPW]

I know , let’s have an really expensive study done on cost savings ... sounds like the government way eh ???

I happen to have a square foamie cooler ... and Lots of T2 and newspaper ... I will test it , and if it works , I’ll be sure to tell everybody .... If it doesn’t work , I’ll tell that too ... Maybe ?

[TJinPgh]

Better than building an entire trailer and finding out after the fact that it wasn't the best of ideas, one would think.

As you suggested, I figured SOMEBODY would have some scrap foam, a little TB2 and some newspaper laying around to test it.

But, there I go trying forsee and eliminate potential issues before they even pop up again.

[bonnie]

I know , let’s have an really expensive study done on cost savings ... sounds like the government way eh ???

I happen to have a square foamie cooler ... and Lots of T2 and newspaper ... I will test it , and if it works , I’ll be sure to tell everybody .... If it doesn’t work , I’ll tell that too ... Maybe ?

Then you can paint it to match the trailer! I am thinking you will find it very sturdy. Will all depend on the water tightness and the paint covering all those stories.

[droid_ca]

could this pass as a tongue box

[KCStudly]

What is the the binder used when they make paper in the first place? Isn't it just wood pulp and water? Or is there some starch in there?

If my recollection (above) is correct, that supports the thought that glue watered down thinner than TB2 label recommends could work just fine.

p.s. Second to last vacation dinner: lobster bisque (again), really good bleu cheese dressing on my salad, scallops sautéed in brown butter w/ garlic mashed and green beans, and a chocolate torte/almond paste coated in choc. ganache w/raspberry sauce dessert. Yumm.

[TJinPgh]

Well, there's more than one way of making paper but, yeah, pulp and water is certainly one of them.

That said, wood pulp has it's own natural resigns unless they are completely stripped away. And, at the pulp stage, you're dealing pretty much with raw fibers rather than sheet like material.

Once the pulp is pressed, all the fibers interlock. Making it not only stronger but binding it together.

As was pointed out by Glen, you'd need to interlock the sheets of newspaper to get any real strength out of it. It MIGHT be beneficial to tear the paper into strips to expose the fibers within it. Not sure.

Again, I don't have any real doubt that it would work if done properly.... interlocked and with enough layers it should be plenty strong. I've said that from the start.

All I said was that tests would need to be done with the glue to figure out what was needed with regards to strength and quantity. From there you could determine whether or not it was worth it.

Not sure what the issue is.

[GPW]

Being an artist , I have dabbled in some paper making ... Instead of using wood pulp I used old rags , shredded into pulp in a blender (burned up a few thrift store blenders that way ) The pulp was mixed in a large tank of water , I did add a little white glue (elmers) as a binder . A wooden frame (deckle ) with a fine screen over it is submersed into the well stirred tank , pulp is allowed to gather over the screen and it is slowly lifted out , then shaken in one direction , and then the other , this locks the fibers together ... once dried , it’s Paper ...

Now I’m not saying paper is the best thing for a skin , I much prefer a good canvas because it only takes one or two “coats” ... But paper is entirely a POSSIBILITY ...

Building Foamies is about Creativity ... Thinking , testing , planning ... using ideas and materials that don’t conform to the normal procedure... We’ve all seen what the “normal” materials do over time ... I’ve had a couple of those , and don’t like the Expense and the high maintenance associated with such materials ... There Has to be a better way !!! Foamies have set me free !!!!

[TJinPgh]

Most paper is, in the end, wood. Glue enough of it together and it's no different in concept from plywood.

There's no reason why a way to make it work couldn't be determined.

My comment was simply one of cost analysis. Sometimes, on paper (no pun intended), things seem like a cheap option and end up not being. Some people can afford the trial and error of such things. Some, like myself, can't. As such, it's typically better to do small scale cost limited tests to determine whether it's the best option.

For me? I'm not sure it would be. I think it would take a tremendous amount of paper.

While I'm sure there are variations, the typical double page sheet of newspaper is about 4 square feet. On a build my size I'd be looking at around 40 full size sheets of newspaper per layer. Probably AT LEAST 4 or 5 layers would be necessary to build up any real strength. Possibly more.

Given the size of the daily newspaper around here, you'd probably be looking at a couple of months worth of newspapers to do it unless you can source enough extras.

I, personally, don't know anybody who really bothers to recycle newspapers any more. As such, they don't typically keep them for more than a day or two. In truth, I only know a couple of people who really bother to read them at all on a daily basis. If you had to buy newspaper just for that purpose, it probably wouldn't pay.

I think it's a very viable option from a strength and design aspect. The cost effectiveness and practicality of it would vary greatly by the individual, I think.

[pete42]

I need a battery box for my scooter lift since I get my insulin in foam boxes from the VA
I may try some newspaper and TBII and see how good it does covering the foam..........wait hasn't this been done before sometime back?
why are we going over this again it's been done it works.

the thought of a fabric covered foam trailer has brough many a chuckel when I mentioned it to others most saying it won't work
I just point to this site and the trailers already built as my answer.

Like Glen says think way outside the box I know foam and fiberglass work why not paper and foam.

I now think anything will work until proven it won't work instead of just saying it won't work.

no need to go on and on try it prove it one way or the other.

pete

[KCStudly]

Not sure what the issue is.

I don't see any issues.

Seems that we all agree that it could work. Just like everything else, how complicated or simple we make our designs and how we source our materials determines how thrifty or expensive our builds become.

I see the canvas as being much more forgiving to minor chinks in the paint/glue armor, whereas the paper would probably not fair as well if moisture were to get in.

However, once all the fibers are sealed with the binder (glue... how thin is too thin glue/water ratio?) who knows? Testing is only valid over a long term and/or simulated harsh environment.

I am curious if the paper strips or thinner fabric (such as the linen sheets I got at the yard sale... perhaps cut into strips) could help to work out some tricky areas (such as the recessed window areas of my doors that will be difficult to cover with a monolithic piece of canvas). I also have a large supply of fiberglass tape that I forget how I came by it.


Discussion is good. Discussion fosters ideas that foster action that yields results. Results earn experience which foster ideas that lead to discussion that foster more ideas; return to discussion is good.

Nobody should get their feelings in a bunch.

When I came here and started my build thread I came right out and said that I would not be building thrifty. I am lucky to have discretion on what I spend my savings on and I make no bones about where I set my priorities. Time is a big factor in that, and then there is that "knack" factor that mandates a certain level of complication with unyielding non-compromise on certain design elements (the "second kind of cool", to quote Nutnfancy)... those artistic design elements that can not be denied due to personal taste. Such is life.

Remember, the genesis of this thread is the simple minimalist foamie with minimal wood covered with glue and canvas then paint.

Those of us that chose to complicate this concept with hybrid methods and much more complicated wood schedules (and inherently more costly effect) must be respectful of the fore people.

[Jack B.]

Okay guys, I want the prize, the award . . whatever it is you get for reading the whole thing. Took a week, but since I've been a musician for decades the late hours didn''t cause a problem.

Figured I would read the entire set to see how the building process has evolved. Seems things have reached a plateau stage AND seem to be getting a little heated of late. Well you can all relax because now I'm here.

My first thought is to build something I can pull with my motorcycle that is lightweight, cheap (did I mention the musician thing?) and relatively easy to construct. I'm also in the "it's time to learn to weld" time so I can finish the recumbent trike I'm building, so I'll be trying to come up with something I can pull behind that as well, and weight really matters on that one. Then possibly a semi-standy to pull behind the 4 cyl. Caravan or the Honda Civic. So you can see I don't intend to ask for much.

Keep the testing and the ideas flowing 'cause despite the dogs, bridges, cup cakes, turkeys, bears and beers there's lots of hands on info here. You guys are kinda like the early years Mother Earth News or Whole Earth Catalog of alternative building.

For the NOLA folks, several years ago (pre-Katrina by a while) I played at the Famous Door for a while. Hmmm . . . I guess the next time I'm in the area I should bring my trumpet and trombone and try finding a band to sit in with. Bit of a drive from MN with gas costing what it does, but the food is always worth the ride. I was really sad to see that Igor's Garlic Clove didn't survive Katrina's visit. They had the absolute best bread pudding.

Here's my first $.02 worth contribution. I can't help but think that maybe two layers of bed sheet material would be way less time consuming than five or six layers of newsprint and possibly/probably stronger. And just as paper has a grain or bias, so too do sheets and fabrics in general. Seams would be less intrusive than canvas and should provide a much smoother surface as well for those who want it. Who doesn't have several old sheets stuck on the back of a bottom linen closet shelf somewhere? Or know someone who does?

I do have a few unanswered question from the last 313 pages. Perhaps I skimmed over something and missed it, but were the bubbles on the front of the mouse-mobile ever fixed? Did the iron ever get found to test that theory? Has Bonnie finalized her plans yet 'cause it looked like it has some promise?

I've run on enough . . . For now.

Jack

[bonnie]

Congratulations! You did it. Welcome to foamies.

I am working on the lift ideas, presently with BUB. Family events and work requirements (gotta pay for the stuff) are taking precedent right this moment. I should be back at the build in a serious way after Labor Day. I've spent quite a bit of time looking at various ideas and will begin testing shortly.

A very small update is the bed frame I bought will fit. That keeps the weight down and I'm excited about that.