Thrifty Alternatives ..Building Foam Campers

[Jack B.]

I've seen this one and a few others along those lines. If I were wanting to learn fiber glassing I would consider something like that. It's so cute and functional. My only worry would be the wheel bearings.

Jack

[Wobbly Wheels]

While a trailer-cum-boat seems like a great idea, I don't see the end result filling either role particularly well in most cases. To make the idea work you need a flat bottomed boat, which is not a comfortable platform for cooking, sleeping, etc. To get a standy out of something that short, you'll have so much windage that it will be a challenge to move the thing around safely, especially with the low freeboard such a design would necessitate. That's one of the reasons why the slab sides on Ray Bolger's boxier designs have so much freeboard.

When the wind shifts, a flat bottomed boat with a large lateral area tend to heel to leeward before it starts to swing. Because there's so little boat in the water, there's little to damp that heel - it's uncomfortable for cooking or sleeping and can be downright dangerous. If you are moving under power and turn to windward, the leeward bow will 'dig in' and make the problem worse. Typical houseboats have little deadrise at the transom so are quite flat aft (at least by west coast standards) but always have a vee at the bow. Remember that this video was shot in ideal conditions, which isn't ever what you build a boat to.

Then there's the issue of immersing your running gear. Yes, it's done on boat trailers all the time...but they don't see nearly the exposure this one would.

Oh, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with a bit of whimsy Jack !
I absolutely applaud the Sealander guy's ingenuity, but I think a better direction would be to start with a boat on a boat trailer and set it up so that you can camp out of it while on the trailer as well. IMHO a detachable pontoon setup could work, as could a boat that you could slide off a decked trailer. There are some good sized trimarans that are made trailerable by raising the amas out of the water and above the boat - I'm sure one could adapt that technology, especially if it's being done on a smaller, lighter scale.

Starting with a boat trailer would allow you to have a dropped section down the center that would give you the benefits of a footwell in a TD and would give you standy height without so much windage by putting more of the boat in the water...which would also make it better at being a boat. A creative yet seaworthy design wouldn't look like you're taking your boat to a campsite. That said, I have camped a couple nights in a 14' Hourston on a trailer...sleeper seats can be pretty comfy.

But that's just another internet opinion

[Jack B.]

Over the years I've done the same research and reading as you obviously have. V hulls are much more comfortable/safer in the water and flat bottoms are much better for living in. Nice thing on a boat is you can stand up outside and sit down inside, which is good 'cause you're always going to be short on space if you want to trailer it.

I've looked into the whole trailer/houseboat thing as a land/water camper on and off over quite a few years. And it all comes back around to the weight issue. And now at $4.00 plus a gallon for gas it's even more of an issue. A soccer van like mine gets 24 or so mpg but would never have the guts to pull anything boat like big enough to be remotely comfortable in as a land camper. Which brings us back to foam and smaller. Disney has it right - "It's a small world after all."

Jack

[Jack B.]

And as an after thought to the above, any "boating" I would do in such a trailer-boat would be in very sheltered lakes or only as a means to get to an island to run aground on. If I wanted to live on the water then I would go the real boat approach. There are a few low priced (relative) trailer friendly, fiber glass, water ballast sailers in the mid-20' range such as the MacGregor line with near standing room and enough room for a friendly couple who don't mind living cozy. Might not want to cross the Atlantic in it but a cruise up and down either coast would be quite doable. And lake living would be a breeze, pun intended.

But enough off topic that doesn't include horses, dogs or high windy bridges where keg ballast is needed.

Jack

[mezmo]

Hey Jack B,

Maybe you could "Foamerize" this design on ebay. It has three patent
drawings in its pics.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VERY-Rar ... 0847220840

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo

[Jack B.]

Now there's a thought, although I'm a little skittish on the single wheel approach. I've also looked into the one wheel options but not sure how it would handle in a package that long and possible heaviness. Now . . . If you were to use an outside the frame two wheel axle that you could flip up like is becoming the norm up here on ice fishing palaces. Fiberglass the hull/floor and lower wall or just do a truck load of paint coats. Now there's a possible way to go. A 4'X8' foamie (on a shallow wood tub) not quite standie, possibly with outriggers for stability when in the water.

Thanx a lot for giving me yet one more project to clutter up my already messy mind.

JC

[Jack B.]

Now, if you go to this site and check out the second boat down - The Aqua Box - It could be a jumping off place for a float trailer design.

cncboatshop.com/houseboat-plans

Think fold up or removable side/front deck decks, removable roof guard rails, waterproof bearing seals . . . Sheltered waters and any place camping.

Jack

[GPW]

Foam boats are easy to make ... When I went to get my foam in Lafitte (yes, named after the pirate) ... The guys kids had lashed a couple foam blocks together and were happily paddling around the bayou ... About as simple as it gets ...

[SamIAm]

Good afternoon all,
381 pages down, and some good ideas for a foam trailer. I am towing with a Civic, so I am limited to 1000 lbs towing capacity, so Foam is the way to go! Thinking of 5*10 *5h, and from what I see here, it looks like I should be able to build that in the 6-700 lb range, giving 3-400 lbs of beer and other sundries. I live in northern AB (the Frozen Wastelands of the North, as I am fond of saying) so securing a supply of 2" thick foam shouldn't be a problem. There is an owens-corning insulation factory ~10km from my home, and I am considering contacting them for specialized knowledge on glues and (hopefully!) on oversized panels so I can do a side out of one piece.

As I was reading, I looked at heat loss through the foam (this might be more relevant for those of you in northern climes), and from what I figure, using R5(per inch) foam 2" thick, one would lose .055 watts per square foot per degree celsius (or .03 watts per square foot per degree farenheit.) The average person puts out 80 watts of heat per hour when sleeping, 120 when awake. Hopefully it helps someone.

I'll have to look into the Glidden Grabber here, see if it is still available. Seems like a good option.

RE: Canvas, I am considering, once the foam core is completed, laying out the canvas, marking the joints, then sewing the sides to the top prior to gluing it on, in hopes of creating a stronger joint. It would be much more like a sock then. Has anyone tried it, or will it be my job to report back? While on the topic of canvas, and pardon me if I missed this in 381 pages (I did skip a bit when it went OT), but does the inner skin provide any strength, or is it more decorative? I ask that, as the theory as I understand it is that this is in essence a stressed skin structure, so on the outside, the canvas is in tension, where it is strong, but on the inside, it is in compression, where is has no strength whatsoever- it is the foam that handles the compression. So in theory, and to be thrifty (and lazy!) one could just paint the inside of the trailer (or am I seriously missing something here?

Anywho, thanks for an interesting read. I look forward to building and contributing. Build likely won't start before mid-july- I've got a research trip to Amsterdam in July, and a bed to build for my almost-6 year old by her birthday in late July.

[GPW]

Hi SamUam , I believe the “sock” was discussed earlier , seems like a Logical idea if you’re sewing skill is up to it ..

Inner skin ... not a bad idea !!! I just did my #1 Foamie inside with bedsheets ... very strong ... Something is better than nothing .... some even choose to put wood inside , either a thin ply paneling or a wooden framework ... The Outside skin/sock is really the most important .. Inside is what you think you’ll need for protection from things/ people bumping around ... Your discretion.

Ps , if you really need more insulation you can double up on the sheets ... Twice the insulation , eight times as Strong ...

[linuxmanxxx]

For true strength both sides have to be skinned. Google and check out the strength gained from simply gluing paper over the foam on both sides.

[SamIAm]

For true strength both sides have to be skinned. Google and check out the strength gained from simply gluing paper over the foam on both sides.

I am not thoroughly convinced that the skin on the inside of the trailer does any good. The way I see it, the whole trailer is one hollow piece of foam, not unlike a torsion box, and that coating the inside of the trailer provides no net structural gain. Heck, I have some scrap foam lying around, maybe I should do a test. From what I've read on the stressed skin structures, certain elements work to counteract compression (the foam) and others counteract tension (the canvas). On the outside of the trailer, the canvas is in tension, as it is fastened at each end to the front/back or side/side of the trailer, and the shape of the trailer, combined with the shrinking of the canvas, provides the tension. On the inside of the trailer, the canvas is glued to the floor, but if it were to shrink too much and the glue joint fail, it would pull away from the foam, as there is nothing else keeping it there.
Well, I will test away, using some beadfoam that I have, making a very basic TD shape, with fabric covering inside and outside on one, and fabric only on the outside on the other. Any ideas to test the strength? I was just going to pile things on top until it gets crushed, and see if one holds significantly more than the other, but am open to more ideas.

[GPW]

Quote: "Heck, I have some scrap foam lying around, maybe I should do a test.”
Sam , that’s always the Best way as many of us have had to prove it to ourselves !!!

[Jack B.]

I seem to remember a hundred pages or so ago somebody suggesting getting all your foam cut and then doing the fabric on it BEFORE assembly. That would give you tension on both sides of the foam and since it would be meeting under/on/around the edges it wouldn't be as likely to pull off. This would seem to be the way to go if you weren't planning on bending your pieces as the bending would increase tension on one side and decrease it on the other. But if you were using one of the (I love to mis-use this word) articulated panel plans instead the traditional curvature of the true teardrop shape you would end up with very tough panels. This would most likely give you stronger "glue-to" surfaces at junctions and a bit better "peg through" strength. Then when it's all assembled you go ahead and throw a full or partial layer of some strong fabric over the top and secure it under the bottom to anchor the shed to the foundation. Or at least from a couple feet up from the bottom and under the floor. Can you say fiberglass tape?

This method would make shopping for foam easier as you could go with two one inch sheets if that was what was on sale or odd sizes overlapping and suffer no fears of the sheets not being glued together well. The fabric sheath holds it all in. It would also let you do a solid one inch sheet for outer surfaces and cut one inch sheets to fit for the inside to allow for anchor points, framing, wiring, etc. Build them all into the structural elements before assembly and voila, strong, efficient, prettier and did I mention strong? We may be on the verge of inventing a foamie system here.

Did I also mention that I'm thinking of patenting this idea I just had? As I think on it, it does seem like a pretty dang good notion. Takes a bit more pre planing and a lot less seat-of-the-pants flying, but the results should be w-a-y more betterer.

Jack

[GPW]

Jack , that’s one way to do it ... It’s probably best to cover both sides at one time to eliminate any chance of warping ... I covered the inside of mine , then assembled it , then covered the outside ... no problems , likely because the inside covering (old bed sheets ) was already pre-shrunk ... Just a thought !!!

I really like the idea of adding foam to foam ... It’s a homogenous material so you can add and subtract foam with no problems ... Great for making/building up odd shapes ... Now with the Gripper , laminating foam pieces is much easier than with GG , which expands and may distort certain shapes ...

Since I can’t seem to get the 2” foam locally , was thinking of getting the 3/4” or 1” (whatever they have) and laminating that together after heat forming ... the thin foam heat forms easily @ ~190F ... stays that way after cooling ... Using the less expensive beaded foam works just Fine on flat surfaces ... Probably OK to mix the two , beaded and extruded ... Many possibilities ... the “sock” holds it all together...

Always a point of consideration has been flexibility ... Trailers do flex a bit going down the road , more or less depending on the road ... Was thinking we’d want some flexibility in the cabin for long term durability ? Maybe a fabric covering (inside too) is better for flexing , than a hard glued paneling or such , just another thought...