Bread-loaf build thread

[RRJR]

Thanks for the compliment on my builds, but you must be confusing me with someone else. I've only built one so far and it's a work in progress.

To answer your question about how I use the paint to glue the burlap to the foam, I pretty much apply it the same way that you use TBll and canvas. I lay on a nice thick layer of paint on the foam, then I lay the burlap on the painted foam and "wet" out the burlap with more paint. Then I take a 5" drywall knife and smooth out the surface making sure all of the fibers are coated with paint.
The only time I've had bubbles was when there was a divot or hole in the foam. Now I make sure that the foam is mostly smooth.

As far as choosing which paint to use, I just get whatever they have in the clearance section. It doesn't matter what kind of paint it is as long as it's a water based laytex. The color doesn't matter since it's only used as glue and to fill in the weave of the burlap.
I've got 4 gallons of Brick and masonary paint that will be my final coat along with some kind of accent stipe.

I started my build on March 6th and I'm about 3/4's done. I hope to be road ready by mid July.

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[Fred Trout]

OK, thanks for the details, might well have made a mistake, since I make them daily. Yesterday I forgot to final tighten the edge guide clamp before cutting foam to length & made a nice walkabout on my edge It will buff out with some Great Stuff !!!

I hate shopping but you convinced me it is worth making the attempt. If nothing else, I can use some for primer coats to smooth the canvas finish if I do find some cheap stuff. Walmart charges absurd high prices on their error bin paint, so that's out.

[Fred Trout]

Wow, stuff happens ! [Another thunderhead coming our way - sheesh ]

Found 2 gallons of miss-tint Valspar latex for $5 at Lowes but not as ugly as your colors, RRJR, and that's too bad.
I was really looking forward to more-ugly-color-than-yours One is light olive, the other is cream-peach -- nom nom nom Will test one out today.

Drove back into driveway and the foam mattress from "thefoamfactory" was delivered early in the day (before 9 am). 4" LUX FOAM-HQ is definitely firm-firm - will not bottom out & should make good seat cushions -- 4" is kind of overkill for a mattress alone but should be perfect for cushions that will fold out into a mattress like in the original Grasshopper, which was our plan. Gotta cut that up soon, 54x74 kinda uses some serious house floorspace.

Did some foam wiring thang - I love foam --- Used a hand-router, stuffed in the wire, and vinyl spackled it in - thanks to many people here for the idea

Started the test with latex paint ---- pic below

[wagondude]

You might check around to see if you can find any household hazardous waste drop off locations in your area. Our local city drop off takes all the paints they get from homeowners and combines the like types of paints into 5 gal buckets. You set up an appointment to drop off or "go shopping". A bucket of paint can be had for free. They just want it to get used rather than having to dry it out and send it to the land fill.

[Fred Trout]

Thanks for the suggestion. If all paint worked like PVA latex and all paint was PVA latex, that would be worth looking into but different paints use different methods of binding. I will stick to paint cans with an accurate label so anybody can figure out what's in it. If the above test proves latex is worth using without reservation, 5 bux a can is not a big deal.

I can tell you right now that when I lifted an edge on the paint test earlier (it was dry to the touch), it came up easily leaving paint behind rather than ripping foam free, but it may not have been completely dry. I will also be doing a hammer impact test as well as the peel test. The painted side seemed flimsy when I poked it compared to the glue panel but same deal, will give it a chance to dry completely. After that preview, I did the other side of the panel with TBII to compare more destructively.

[GPW]

Latex paint can take a week or more to cure and harden , whereas T2 takes a day or two ... T2 dries hard, paint , not so much . From our testing ... T2 sticks things together better , paint covers better... just sayin’ ... We like Latex Gloss Exterior house paint for the outer paint. Washes easier, looks smoother on canvas.
For those looking for a smoother finish on the canvas weave, you might try concrete “block fill” primer, which is like regular latex primer but much THICKER.. I used it on the house/studio build (cinder blocks) and it works great . Recommended by a friend who contracted for gas station and jiffy marts construction.
The most important thing with covering is to end up with a uniform coating of glue on BOTH mating surfaces... We’ve all seen carpenters run a serpentine bead of glue down a board and then stick another board on top ... Well that doesn’t work worth a hoot with canvas.... Foam and canvas should be equally wetted with glue for best adhesion... Any bubbles/problems we had , were revealed to have dry spots on the canvas , no glue ... You can thin the glue (quite a bit) , but don’t stint. The thicker the canvas , the more you MUST saturate the canvas with glue .
We found (in our HOT climate) that dampening the canvas while we were gluing /stretching/ smoothing it , made it work much easier and “wet” (glue) quicker . On the FS , we didn’t have that luxury due to the size and I was working by myself , so we did have some “bubbles “ due to dry spots and had to go back and re-glue these places... When I pulled the canvas back up to re-glue , you could see the bubbles had No glue underneath on the canvas...

Low 90’s forecast for today .... no longer nice weather for trailer building... FS was built in the heat of the summer .... no Fun !!!

[GPW]

..... and .... something we’ve been thinking about is when dampening the canvas we can use the old reliable mixture ( we used in airplane modeling) of 25% T2 and 75% water in the spray bottle ... which MUST (logically) be better than just spraying on, dampening with water alone ...
Anybody that’s done wallpaper before should have NO problems ...

[dales133]

I'm getting g closer to gluing my canvas over my ply skin, hopefully before I go on holiday.....if i need to fill holes in the ply and I'll also have to have a join in each wall ply what would you suggest I fill them with that will be compatible with tb2?.
I found some nice raw cotton canvas but I think I'll just use bedsheets on the roof I'm floating aluminium over.
But again I'll have fixing holes and joins to contend with. It mostly the wall ones I'm concerned about as I don't want them showing through the finished product

[Fred Trout]

GPW, thanks for the recap of your TBII vs Paint experience. That all sounds about right when the two are compared. I like the smoother finished look, so will be spending more time on finish painting than the minimum until it's 'good enough'.

Seems to me that one of the big advantages of TBII is the impact resistance it gives - that's why I was planning on doing the smack with a hammer test on my sample. I expect that I will be bumping all kinds of things, elbows, head, feet, etc, into the teardrop walls being somewhat clumsy and would prefer not to have to repair punctures & divots.

Still too cool atm (40s) to work on teardrop but will be laying down the other side's TBII interior on the flat today - no overlaps on this one either. Pix will follow.

[Fred Trout]

I'm getting g closer to gluing my canvas over my ply skin, hopefully before I go on holiday.....if i need to fill holes in the ply and I'll also have to have a join in each wall ply what would you suggest I fill them with that will be compatible with tb2?.
I found some nice raw cotton canvas but I think I'll just use bedsheets on the roof I'm floating aluminium over.
But again I'll have fixing holes and joins to contend with. It mostly the wall ones I'm concerned about as I don't want them showing through the finished product

I am no expert but filling material depends on the stability of the underlying matrix. You should read more about alternative materials since I don't know what is best ('good enuf' is what I want). Your panel joint seams will never fill well & stay that way if they flex the joint continuously, so your number one goal should be getting the two sheets to move as one surface. As far as normal dings and scrapes, I am using Great Stuff for the big voids and vinyl spackle for the small stuff & smoothing. GS is very sticky & a good glue, & cuts / sands well; spackle is just icing. Sanding generates enormous amounts of dust so good cleanup is needed. The surface should be free of loose dust & have slight sanding marks to help the 'glue' stick. I liked ghcoe's idea on putting on primer coat before starting the finish process so you know when you are sanding away the foam; that has worked well for me since finesse is not my strong point. You don't want to see all the dings I add as I sand

The thinner the covering, the more minor blemishes will show thru. If you care about the appearance, you should use the same techniques that a dry-wall-finisher uses with the spackle, with light smooth coats followed by sanding and following coats until no blemishes remain. If you don't care how it looks, fill the holes to stop the drafts and you are done

[GPW]

Dale , we found with our wooden TD (some time ago) That wherever we had a fabric or fiberglass covering, there was no splitting of the plywood roof area , especially with a curved bent(TD) roof... So use whatever thickness you think you need to float the AL sheet over. Preventing the splitting of the outer (Tension) plywood grain eliminates water entry and eventual de-lamination and ROT. A simple covering, correctly applied, really eliminates most of any problems that could happen. Much lessens the chance of water entry into the cabin framing even if the caulk on the AL skins fails ... Speaking of caulk , , plain old Latex caulk in the tube works fine for filling gaps, holes, etc.

Areas just primed and painted bent plywood on the roof , soon split in tension and quickly absorbed water and humidity and quickly de-laminated . Had we known about just covering our roof with canvas , we’d probably still have the old trailer. I Liked it !!!

Fred, it’s the same old story ... the right stuff for the job!!! As a career Artist and painter, I've painted on and with most everything (types of paint and surfaces) over these many years , and it always comes down to proper surface prep , good application , and following the standard procedures. ( actually written on the can !!! ) , and most important , using the right type of paint ... (compatibility)

As a test smear some paint thickly on a piece of paper , then some T2 in the same thickness... Let dry thoroughly ... The T2 will dry more Brittle (and will crack with more thickness) whereas the paint forms a more flexible film ... This is where the better paints excel ,as their films stay flexible longer than the cheaper paints whose films become brittle sooner ... and then crack . We’ve had Latex outdoor murals/signage exposed to the southern Sun for as long as 10 years , good paint , but eventually it got chalky and dull...but didn’t crack and soak the substrate .

[dales133]

So spack filler will be compatible with tb2 then?.
I was thinking of body filler or spackle but I also have some waterproofing cloth bandage I use at work.
And yes I'm Mr perfectionist and want as close to a flawless finish as possible although I want to retain the canvas texture to a degree

[Fred Trout]

GPW, never saw that one before & it looks real nice ! How many teardrops do you have lurking around ?

[Fred Trout]

So spack filler will be compatible with tb2 then?.
I was thinking of body filler or spackle but I also have some waterproofing cloth bandage I use at work.
And yes I'm Mr perfectionist and want as close to a flawless finish as possible although I want to retain the canvas texture to a degree

I am using vinyl spackle just because I don't know any other good alternatives (also I sand most all of it away except what little does the job). Do a search to find more reliable info than what little I know - here is an example discussing bondo & alternatives : http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=11401

This forum is a great tool for years of experience - I have almost none

[dales133]

Thanks Fred I'll have a looksie