Canvas Tarp Suppliers

[tony.latham]

Then I would paint; or try MonstaLiner or equiv, as per the big write-up by Tony L (?)

If you are considering fiberglass cloth, why not use the stuff they made it for? Epoxy? It works well and isn't a huge learning curve. By the way, I've never heard of someone using a bed liner over PMF. Maybe it's been done, but it really needs to be applied over the correct primer.

Tony

[kronan]

Hey Tony - thanks for the response.
I did read (most of) that long thread on your build. Very nice work.
Appreciate your effort to educate others.

Epoxy or Resin : well my neighbour really encourages Carbon or Fiberglass. He also dabbles in Kevlar.
I’d love to get learned up on these composites - hundreds of use cases for “ light & strong.”

But … spoke to several experienced folks - and read about some health risks with Resins & Epoxies.
I’m also trying to deal with fine dust in my woodworking.
So I am likely best to limit my exposure as much as I can.
Plus - small garage up north here - “good ventilation” is only avail ~5 months per year or less ….
Right when you’ve got a million other warm-weather projects pressing !

So -
As much as I’d love to learn Epoxies, I think I should perhaps “settle” for PMF.

Unless I learn some new perspectives in the meantime ???


NB. Just for added colour…

Woodworking - the dust collection guru is Bill Pentz. https://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclo ... e_plan.php
My goodness ! - when you read his lengthy blog there. He has done loads of work in this area…. But sadly he is very limited due to :
Severe respiratory distress. Fine dust.


I had a great long convo with a couple of local composite experts.
Super - enthusiastic. One is a Race boat builder. Really encouraged me to get into both CF & Glass.

Was excited. Perhaps I can just do wet layups ( no need for autoclave, or vacuum-bagging.)

Finished up by asking about hazards.
He agreed that you really need a separate workshop for the very stinky Resins.
Epoxy - “well, sure they don’t really smell bad - but that doesn’t mean they are hazard-free.”
He said - yeah, go Google up “Epoxy Plague.”
(Alt. : Epoxy Lung.)

So it seems the ones who get into it sorta make it a huge hobby, or a business.
Makes the investment in protections worthwhile.
These folks all have very large shops / ventilation/ tyvek suits / etc, etc.

So for me - just to pop into the hobby for a couple of one-off projects -
I might be best to limit my exposure- since I’m already getting wood dust exposure.

[kronan]

By the way, I've never heard of someone using a bed liner over PMF. Maybe it's been done, but it really needs to be applied over the correct primer.

Tony[/quote]


Oh ok - here I was thinking a bed liner would behave the same as a paint !

Ok, so I’m waiting to hear back from a local supplier of Raptor Liner - what do they recommended as a substrate.

So would you advise staying with a regular paint (acrylic ?) over the PMF glue ?

I sorta thought the rough texture of Raptor, or MonstaLiner, etc - would blend nicely with the (perhaps) rough texture of a PMF project built by a noob - me. Thanks

[tony.latham]

spoke to several experienced folks - and read about some health risks with Resins & Epoxies...

Here's the MSDS for Raka epoxy:

https://www.raka.com/resin-safety-data-sheet/

Note that as long as you keep it out of your eyes and off your skin, you're fine. It's benign stuff. That's the science.

Here's the dope on polyester resins from an MSDS:

P101 If medical advice is needed, have product container or label at hand.
P102 Keep out of reach of children.
P201 Obtain special instructions before use.
P202 Do not handle until all safety precautions have been read and understood.
P210 Keep away from heat, hot surfaces, sparks, open flames and other ignition sources. No
smoking.
P233 Keep container tightly closed.
P240 Ground/ bond container and receiving equipment.
P241 Use explosion-proof electrical equipment.
P242 Use only non-sparking tools.
P243 Take precautionary measures against static discharge.
P260 Do not breathe vapour/ spray.
P264 Wash contaminated skin thoroughly after handling.
P270 Do not eat, drink or smoke when using this product.
P271 Use only outdoors or in a well-ventilated area.
P280 Wear protective gloves/ protective clothing/ eye protection/ face protection.
P302+P352 IF ON SKIN: Wash with plenty of water.
P303+P361+P353 IF ON SKIN (or hair): Take off immediately all contaminated clothing.
Rinse skin with water/ shower.
P304+P340 IF INHALED: Remove person to fresh air and keep comfortable for breathing.
P305+P351+P338 IF IN EYES: Rinse cautiously with water for several minutes. Remove
contact lenses, if present and easy to do. Continue rinsing.
P308+P313 IF exposed or concerned: Get medical advice/ attention.
P312 Call a POISON CENTER/ doctor if you feel unwell.
P314 Get medical advice/ attention if you feel unwell.
P332+P313 If skin irritation occurs: Get medical advice/ attention.
P337+P313 If eye irritation persists: Get medical advice/ attention.
P362+P364 Take off contaminated clothing and wash it before reuse.
P370+P378 In case of fire: Use foam, carbon dioxide, dry powder or water fog to extinguish.
P403+P235 Store in a well-ventilated place. Keep cool.
P405 Store locked up.
P501 Dispose of contents/ container in accordance with national regulations.

I think your friends are confusing epoxy for the hazards of polyester resin.

Tony

[kronan]

Ya know…
At one point I was planning a torsion box. Thin rips of cedar forming a grid ( should I attempt hexagons like the honey bees do ?)

Then skin it both sides with thin plywood. But … B Birch is very difficult to get, and quite expensive when avail.

So then there’s ACM - Aluminum Composite panels.
Trying to secure some cut-offs or factory seconds - still $4 / Sq ft. for off-cuts.

Or there’s this new-ish Revolution ply.
But it’s still $30 per sheet.
And I think it’s made of sawdust and used Kleenex ??

Which brings me right back around to PMF. Light & Strong… AND Affordable.


But I would be happy to use Fiberglass as my cloth, vice Canvas.
1. I can get it affordably- neighbour.
2. Even lighter weight (maybe it’s marginal - dunno.)
3. Perhaps makes a better job of it.

So the question for me is : can I go ahead and just use TBII glue on Glass cloth.
Or must I use an Epoxy ?

But then I’d have to circle back and determine if Epoxy is compatible with Foam substrate. XPS &/or EPS.

[tony.latham]

can I go ahead and just use TBII glue on Glass cloth.
Or must I use an Epoxy ?

Use the stuff the product was made for.

You should decide you're doing glued-on canvas of the real deal --epoxy/fiberglass. One of the two systems.

End of story.

Tony

[GPW]

The above is why I Like PMF ... Simple , easy , safe , and mine has lasted ten years already ...

[tony.latham]

The above is why I Like PMF ... safe

Glen: You read the paste from the MSDS on polyester resin, but you must not have read the epoxy MSDS that I linked to. It's a hundred times safer than the old Glidden Gripper. The stuff is as benign as TB2 as long as you keep it out of your eyes.

Tony

[GPW]

Tony , I've worked with Epoxies (and resins) for many years , and developed an allergy ( very itchy and red spots ) to it despite many safety precautions ... So I now have to treat All materials as potentially dangerous ... Thankfully I can still eat Peanut butter...
Turns out the Gripper was what was recommended at the time by the experts here , so we used long rollers on poles to apply it , with an intense clean up after... I still have my doubts about TB2 and House paint too ... All nasty really !!!
Speaking of canvas , I've been quite Happy with my Big Duck canvas ... they even offer some interesting blends that may ( or may not ) be better suited to TTT use . More testing ...

As a professional Artist for 53 years, I can attest to the extremely TOXIC nature of Artists paint ... Cadmium , heavy metals , etc... That's why Artist brushes have such long handles ... And I'm still alive, healthy , and painting (@74). For examples see my Facebook page ...

[McFish1951]

Tony; Is one layer of fg cloth and epoxy enough on the exterior? Would you do the interior in fg as well?

[tony.latham]

Tony; Is one layer of fg cloth and epoxy enough on the exterior? Would you do the interior in fg as well?

The reason I fiberglass/epoxy the exterior of a teardrop cabin is to seal the wood. One layer of 4 or 6 oz cloth does the job fine.



There's no reason to fiberglass the interior. Three coats of polyurethane varnish seals it just fine. I really like the oil-based Minwax.





Tony