A paint hint …

[GPW]

Since we’re currently involved with some Fall Home maintenance , we went to the trusted local paint store looking for some good house paint. The owner , Big Tommy , asked me if was it down to bare wood , and mentioned if I used highly thinned paint for the first coat , that would serve as a “Primer" , the idea to let the paint sink into the wood , not just ride on the surface … He said that should dry for 24 hours before applying the un-thinned paint … Made sense to me and that’s what we’ll be doing on the house parts.
Makes sense on trailers too … If you don’t need a thick primer like the Gripper , a thin one , properly applied, will do !!! Just a hint ..

[swoody126]

been using this method w/ varnish for MANY years

1st coat 25% varnish & 75% thinner rubbed on w/ a cean lint free rag

2nd coat 50% varnish & 50% thinner rubbed on w/ a cean lint free rag

3rd coat 75% varnish & 25% thinner brushed on w/ fine camel hair brush

4th and subsequent coats 100% varnish brushed on w/ fine camel hair brush

all gently wiped w/ OOOO steel wool between coats which weren't allowed to absolutely cure created one #311 of a durable/beautiful finish

usually it only required dulling w/ OOOO steel wool and recoating annually to maintain that beautiful finish

when(not if) the sun did damage the finish 400 grit wet sanding down to unaffected finish was used to repair

sw

[John61CT]

Are you talking about ongoing maintenance?

Or an alternative idea for initial PMF skinning?

The analogue of "bare wood" for a foamie would be canvas fibers showing through the bottom-most TB2 / Gripper glue / gesso layer?

Assuming an all-Gripper scenario below the outer paint, would the takeaway be,

no need to put Gripper down over the worn-through area, just use some thinned outer paint and let it dry before going full strength?

[GPW]

Swoody, we’re writing that down to try on our homemade guitar bodies ... Thanks !!!

John , I’m sure it would work with most anything we’d want .  What I was told was for Bare wood … And since some of us have wooden frames , this could be pretty handy … No use primering wood if we don’t have to … $$

On canvas , we’d call that a “sizing “ coat …. Thinking now we could thin the Gripper (primer) for a first “sizing “ coat … then regular primer as a weave filler … Everybody ( threads/fibers) gets encapsulated …
Same sorta thing for those using T2 we’d assume ...

[GPW]

Just to report : We let the “thinned Prime coat” dry several days and naturally it rained in between, but things dried out enough to go back and put a regular coat of un thinned paint on , and that worked Fine , The Prime coat prevented the water from getting in the bared wood and provided a good base for the next coat , so it worked as it was supposed to .

[John61CT]

When talking about the foam + canvas areas only,

my understanding is the purpose of the first coat (pre-canvas) is to flow into the holes, forming "holding spikes" embedded into the foam for greater adhesion strength, like a "3D base" rather than relying on a 2D layer only.

I had assumed full strength for that purpose. But Gripper being so thick (in my case Gripper only being used, no TB2), maybe a slight thinning would help, lower viscosity enabling it to seep deeper into the spiked holes & foam surface nooks & crannies?

I assume Gripper-to-Gripper adhesion of subsequent coats would be strong as can be, so any further thinning would only be desirable over porous wood elements?

[GPW]

When it comes to all those little holes , it’s not really all that necessary , more just for the people who thought it needed more adhesion , and it really does work … but is in reality , just a little extra insurance … Normally we’d just sand the foam to break the gloss on the surface , vacuum up the foam dust , and wipe it with rubbing alcohol to remove any oily contaminants … That works Fine …

The above Paint hint was recommended for bare wood , prime and then paint … canvas covering is another story, different procedure … but similar to a canvas ”sizing” coat …
For canvas we’d go with a thick (out the can) coat of Gripper or T-2 for attaching the canvas , let that dry thoroughly and then add the thinned coat for the sizing ( sealing the fibers internally ) , then a regular coat of primer on that for filling the weave … and for that lately we’ve been experimentimng with Acrylic GESSO , and Acrylic modeling paste applied with a Bondo spreader which forces the material into the weave of the canvas and the scraping action of the spreader makes a smooth coat on top … Multiple passes and some light sanding can produce an eggshell type smooth finish … ( More work , but SMOOTH as you like it . )

[John61CT]

Love the idea of a shiny gelcoat type finish!

Awlgrip / awlcraft apparently hard to get the pro finish, need to spray

A 2-part polyurethane paint like Interlux Perfection?

PT Watercraft e-book is apparently very good howto roller method rather than spray http://www.ptwatercraft.com/ptwatercraf ... Brown.html

[GPW]

Guys, got my balcony project finished the paint went on fine over the “thinned primer coat “ … And we installed a short gutter and “rain chain“ to divert the roof runoff away from the balcony , which caused the paint to fail in the first place … We’ll be using the thinned paint for primer trick in the future …

[Andrew Herrick]

Maybe I'm missing the point here ... but what was wrong with using regular ol' primer as .... primer? Higher solids content, better stain-blocking, super adhesion, tintable, $20 a gallon, and can be selected to best match your substrate?

[GPW]

Andrew , no point ( almost pointless ) , just something the guy who owned the paint store suggested and we tried out … and it worked … Just experimenting !!! … I’ve been dealing with him for 20 years now and have had excellent results from his suggestions … Who knows one day we may have to paint something and have no primer … ( hypothetically)

[Andrew Herrick]

Andrew , no point ( almost pointless ) , just something the guy who owned the paint store suggested and we tried out … and it worked … Just experimenting !!! … I’ve been dealing with him for 20 years now and have had excellent results from his suggestions … Who knows one day we may have to paint something and have no primer … ( hypothetically)

Always helps to carry a Macgyvered solution in your back pocket!

Interesting to know why it works? I'm gonna nerd out for a moment and take a guess: I'm supposing that adding more solvent (water) to the paint doesn't change the size of the latex particles (molecules?). Side note: This little blurb indicates that high-gloss paints have smaller particle sizes than satin and flat sheens (http://www.paintcenter.org/rj/apr04h.php). Never knew that. Anyway, back to the topic. So, if adding solvent doesn't change the latex particle size, then I'm guessing it doesn't penetrate THAT much deeper into the wood. Rather, I'd suppose that the thinned paint has a weaker chemical bond with itself and therefore a relatively stronger mechanical bond with the porous wood. In other words, it fully "wets out" the surface via adsorption, and the latex particles are able to lodge themselves snugly in the wood pores. The topcoat then essentially bonds to the thinned version of itself.

I know that nothing I just wrote actually matters. But I had fun writing it

[GPW]

Sounds Cool to me Dude !!!

That McGuyver thing … we live out in the woods and it’s about 12 miles to the closest hardware store , or any store really …sometimes we have to just ”make do“ with what we have on hand … or it's a long drive and back ( almost 18 miles to the Paint store ) , the way I drive ( speed limit) , that alone would take all morning …