Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers

Posted: **Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:00 pm**

Hey all - I joined this forum last night because I want to build a foamie! Learned a lot already and couldn't sleep for making plans in my mind all night long. Anyway I have a question about axle ratings for foamies. here are the factors:

- square drop foamie on a HT frame (1,750lb capacity frame), dimensions are likely to be 6' wide, 8' long, 4' tall
- with simple galley
- light off-roading (eg forest service roads and *possibly* easy trails)
- with 200 lb dirt bike on the trailer toward front
- normal camping gear, maybe a canoe, maybe some bikes
- torsion axle preferred
- would install 15" wheels

Given these parameters, first off, is a torsion axle really necessary for this application? I've seen that some folks that went with a traditional axle regretted not just installing the torsion axles to begin with. Second, this setup seems so light that I'm concerned about excessive bouncing on an underloaded axle. Should I install a 1,000 lb axle? 2,000 lb?

Thanks for your help!

Posted: **Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:06 am**

Spexx, originally everyone thought a Foamie would just blow away in the wind, so it was suggested to carry ballast ( 500 lbs. of Beer). :lol:

Turns out all those concerns were unfounded , in all those years , only one foamie trailer blew over , only because it was too Tall , and too skinny ..
Regarding axels, it would seem you want something able to handle the expected weight plus a little more . And because Foamie trailers are so light , there's less inertia than the commercial trailers , so bouncing is usually not a problem ...

Torsion axels , we've never used them , but others seem quite satisfied... So we'll let them tell you all about it !!! :thumbsup:

Posted: **Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:04 pm**

I used the HF 12" wheels that the 1195# came with and they are fine for pavement, smooth dirt/gravel. They really suck for anything rougher than that.

I moved up to 13" Wheels with spacers and WOW what a difference. I ran these on just about any road and non-road you can think of. Really, they were just a temporary fix till I could move up to a bigger axle and 15" tires. I ran these for almost 3 years.

I just now converted to a 3500# axle and 15" wheels. I also did a soft ride leaf system in last year.

As far as torsion axles go I am not sure if you really need the extra cost. I ordered a 3500# axle with hubs and new U-bolts/spring mounts shipped to me was $331.00. Soft ride spring system was $166.00. This system is ready to bolt onto your harbor freight trailer. If you think you need more clearance on your trailer than on your vehicle, then maybe it is an option to get a torsion axle.

Posted: **Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:47 pm**

GPW wrote:Spexx, originally everyone thought a Foamie would just blow away in the wind, so it was suggested to carry ballast ( 500 lbs. of Beer). Turns out all those concerns were unfounded , in all those years , only one foamie trailer blew over , only because it was too Tall , and too skinny ..
Regarding axels, it would seem you want something able to handle the expected weight plus a little more . And because Foamie trailers are so light , there's less inertia than the commercial trailers , so bouncing is usually not a problem ...

Torsion axels , we've never used them , but others seem quite satisfied... So we'll let them tell you all about it !!!

This is helpful, thanks. I'm not so concerned about it blowing around/over, I'm more concerned with it bouncing around on underloaded suspension because the load is so light. And that, only really worried about it on long jaunts down forest service roads.

Posted: **Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:58 pm**

ghcoe wrote:I used the HF 12" wheels that the 1195# came with and they are fine for pavement, smooth dirt/gravel. They really suck for anything rougher than that.

I moved up to 13" Wheels with spacers and WOW what a difference. I ran these on just about any road and non-road you can think of. Really, they were just a temporary fix till I could move up to a bigger axle and 15" tires. I ran these for almost 3 years.

Curious why you decided to move to the 15" wheels after success with the 13"?

ghcoe wrote:I just now converted to a 3500# axle and 15" wheels. I also did a soft ride leaf system in last year.

Did you ever try removing a leaf from the leaf spring on the stock HF set up before you bought the soft ride system? I'm new to trailers, so unsure what if any impact that might have on ride quality with light loads.

ghcoe wrote:As far as torsion axles go I am not sure if you really need the extra cost. I ordered a 3500# axle with hubs and new U-bolts/spring mounts shipped to me was $331.00. Soft ride spring system was $166.00. This system is ready to bolt onto your harbor freight trailer. If you think you need more clearance on your trailer than on your vehicle, then maybe it is an option to get a torsion axle.

I found some torsion axles ($225 for 1,000 lbs, $250 for 2,000 lbs) on amazon, plus another $120 for hubs. Seems like we're in the same ballpark assuming the cheap torsion axles are not complete junk. As for fitment....not super sure yet need to research more but wanted to be sure I was bothering to research the right thing

Posted: **Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:09 pm**

Spexx wrote:
ghcoe wrote:I used the HF 12" wheels that the 1195# came with and they are fine for pavement, smooth dirt/gravel. They really suck for anything rougher than that.

I moved up to 13" Wheels with spacers and WOW what a difference. I ran these on just about any road and non-road you can think of. Really, they were just a temporary fix till I could move up to a bigger axle and 15" tires. I ran these for almost 3 years.

Curious why you decided to move to the 15" wheels after success with the 13"?
I had always wanted to move up to the 15" wheels from the beginning. I had the 1195# HF trailer which has a light 4 lug axle, 13" was as big a wheel I could get with the correct lug pattern. 15" is a 5 lug. It was in the budget at that time. 2 new tires/wheels and 1 3/4" spacers were under $200.

12 to 13 inch wheels/tires

12 to 13 inch wheels tires s.jpg (39.99 KiB) Viewed 1997 times

As you can see there is a huge difference between the 12" and 13" wheel/tire combos.

13" to 15"

20220619_085634_HDR s.jpg (316.98 KiB) Viewed 1997 times

And the 13" to 15".

I at some point did finally manage to bend the axle so I needed to replace it. It was not too much more money to go from a 2000# axle to a 3500#. The tires needed to be replaced too so it was a no brainer to go ahead with the bigger upgrade.

ghcoe wrote:I just now converted to a 3500# axle and 15" wheels. I also did a soft ride leaf system in last year.

Did you ever try removing a leaf from the leaf spring on the stock HF set up before you bought the soft ride system? I'm new to trailers, so unsure what if any impact that might have on ride quality with light loads.

I did flip the short spring on the original pack. It did soften the ride quite a bit. That and only running 15lbs in the tires. After many a bumpy two track the main spring broke right at the center spring pack bolt. That was spring of 2021 so I replaced it with the soft ride springs a guy makes for the HF trailers. The springs are longer and they have actual shackles rather than the slipper style springs that HF and other lower cost trailers use.

springs

20210516_145830 s.jpg (305.48 KiB) Viewed 1997 times

The longer springs make for a softer ride. The shackles make for a nice quiet ride over rough roads. The slipper springs clack a lot.

ghcoe wrote:As far as torsion axles go I am not sure if you really need the extra cost. I ordered a 3500# axle with hubs and new U-bolts/spring mounts shipped to me was $331.00. Soft ride spring system was $166.00. This system is ready to bolt onto your harbor freight trailer. If you think you need more clearance on your trailer than on your vehicle, then maybe it is an option to get a torsion axle.

I found some torsion axles ($225 for 1,000 lbs, $250 for 2,000 lbs) on amazon, plus another $120 for hubs. Seems like we're in the same ballpark assuming the cheap torsion axles are not complete junk. As for fitment....not super sure yet need to research more but wanted to be sure I was bothering to research the right thing

Yes make sure they will bolt to the frame in the right places. Often they come premade for wider trailers, but cost extra for custom widths. The price I mentioned above also included shipping. This is also a 3500# axle which usually is recommended for wheel/tires 31" or taller. It is also set up for trailer brakes if I ever want to convert to that. You might check and see if they list the recommended max tire size on those axles. They don't recommend anything bigger than a 31" wheel/tire on 1720# HF trailer axle, which I believe is rated at 2000#

Posted: **Fri Dec 16, 2022 5:35 pm**

It seems to me as George contends that a potential problem with light weight foamies is that the trailer
is rated for heavier loads and thus could be too stiff.
A stiff ride may lead to excessive bouncing and jolting that could damage cabin contents or even damage the foam cabin structure over time.

GPW wrote: ... because Foamie trailers are so light , there's less inertia than the commercial trailers , so bouncing is usually not a problem ...

Actually I think being light, it will bounce even more.

Newton told us F=MA:
A given force from a road bump will accelerate a small weight more than a heavy weight.

I am trying to understand whether I am worrying about this for a good reason.
Is this is actually a problem?

On my build, viewtopic.php?f=55&t=75248, I have had some items riding in this trailer shaken more than I might hope while traveling.

A Harbor Freight trailer, for instance, has a 1195 lb capacity.
What does that mean?

Total weight of the whole trailer (chassis & cabin)?
The weight ontop of the chassis?
Total weight on wheels?
Does the tongue weight count?

A foamy cabin might weigh only 300 lb.
This will be much less than the capacity of most trailers. Thus, this would be a common foamie issue.

Are there ways to measure the roughness of the ride?
Are there thoughts about how stiff is too stiff?
For trailer load capacity, more is not necessarily better.

I have seen several people here and elsewhere advocate decreasing the tire pressure to mitigate shaking.
Others have proposed carrying cases of beer to increase weight. This should reduce shaking (and prevent it from blowing away if that is the fear).

What measure can be made to an already built trailer?
What other measures can a home builder institute to minimize the potential damage?
Has this been covered somewhere?

Don't folks think smooth is good?

Thanks,

Tom

Posted: **Sat Dec 17, 2022 12:22 am**

In my case, I use the trailer in harsher environments than most people would. I have driven #2 on countless backcountry roads for the last 4 years with the 13" tires/wheels, the short spring in the spring pack flipped and running 15lbs tire pressure on and off road. It has done just fine for what I needed it to do. The 12" tires and wheels were fine for pavement and dirt/gravel roads that did not have ruts. They lasted only one trip for me https://youtu.be/PZSYVVIN5DM . If you watch the video, you can see the trailer bouncing and juddering severely at times. This I would actually call a good road for most of my travels offroad. The 13" tire/wheel swap made a huge difference in trailer behavior on these road types and worse.

Some of my offroad pictures... :lol:

: River Crossing #1; River Crossing 3 s.png (564.56 KiB) Viewed 1840 times

: River Crossing #3; River Crossing 2 s.png (508.31 KiB) Viewed 1840 times

: River Crossing #3; Crossing.png (728.69 KiB) Viewed 1840 times

Even running the 13" tires/wheels at 15lbs psi I still had more center tire wear than outside edge wear. Ideally you want even wear from side to side, but I am afraid to go much lower in fear of losing a bead on trail.

If these are not roads you plan on driving on then you will have better success than I.

You can do as I did. I watched the trailer on the road surfaces I was driving on and then made changes to the shortcomings I found. 13" tires/wheels was first, longer springs with shackles second, 3500# axle with 15" tires/wheels third.

Posted: **Sat Dec 17, 2022 12:40 am**

Here is an example of some of the roads #2 has seen...

Posted: **Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:21 am**

Here are some further thoughts on this topic.

Bigger is NOT better. The axle capacity is determined by the weight of the trailer, you want the suspension to work within the range it was designed to carry, if you put an axle on that is rated too low then the suspension will be at or near the maximum compressed range, when you hit a bump the axle will not absorb the bump and send the shock through the trailer and frame (bottom out the suspension). If you put on an axle that has too high a capacity, like a 3500 lb axle, the suspension will resist moving and again any bump will be sent through the trailer and frame. Ideally you want the capacity so that the suspension is slightly compressed when the trailer is just sitting, when a bump is hit the suspension compresses and absorbs the impact rather that transferring it to the trailer and frame.

Here is a very nice discussion on this very forum from 15 years ago (the pre-foamie days).
viewtopic.php?p=194840

While they all agree the weight on the axle should not exceed the rated capacity, there is less agreement on the minimum weight.

One person advocated the weight on the axle should be 2/3 the axle capacity. For a Harbor Freight 1195 lb rated axle that would be around 800 lb. A foamy cabin might easily not exceed 350 lb. The tongue weight and wheel weight should be subtracted from the total weight. Many foamie trailers will be far too light for these axles.

I am gathering from other google hits that axle manufacturers have a minimum weight number for their axles. I do not know where to find this information. I did not see it on the Dexter site.

If one had this information, the question becomes what will my homebuilt trailer weigh? Some of the above posters point out you won't know until it is built, so you should buy you axle after the trailer is built. Or you can do what most of us do and make a hopeful guess.

Tom

Posted: **Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:05 am**

I am thinking there is too much thinking on this subject.

Basically, what you are talking about is sprung and un-sprung weight. A good example of this in practice are 1/2, 3/4 and 1-ton pickups. Really there is not a true 3/4 ton pickup. 3/4-ton pickups can be any combination of parts from a 1/2 ton and 1-ton pickups. Most of these parts are axles, spring packs, and brake options. 1/2-ton trucks generally ride nice on the road but can't carry a lot of load. 1 Ton ride harsh empty on the road but can carry a lot of weight. 3/4 ton is a compromise between the two. Better ride than an empty 1 ton but more payload than a 3/4 ton. You see these vehicles driving around all the time unloaded. What does this mean? It really does not matter. It is just up to what you want to live with, harsh ride or no payload or a compromise.

With that said there are a lot of things that can alter the ride characteristics. Air bag suspensions, springs, overloader spring, shock absorbers, tire pressure, tire types can all be altered to get different results. It is just a matter of dialing it in to the ride you want.

Yes, a foamie body is quite light. My Bug Out builds usually come in at 375 to 400 with the Harbor Freight trailer. You have to consider what you plan on carrying in the trailer as well. With my modifications and camp gear I am sitting between 750-800lbs which as you can see by your previous post that is just about right. I have changed out the springs for longer springs with shackles, but the spring weight is about the same as the stock springs. They do ride better because the axle motion has more leverage on the longer springs than on the shorter stock springs.

As far as overweight axles go, I switched to the 3500lb axle because the 1195lb axle finally bent and was causing accelerated tire wear. I really am surprised the axle lasted that long to be honest. The plan was always to switch to a heavier axle. On 2000lbs axles they don't recommend running a tire larger than 31" so that was out. Also, the difference in my application is that if you come up to a large obstacle on trail you can inflict a lot more force on the axle than it was designed for trying to get the wheel up and over the obstacle.

I have used the trailer from stock form all the way up to what it is today. I have been happy with each and every upgrade I have done. I use this trailer harder than most people will. These upgrades in the average trailer are probably not needed. I am just reporting what my experiences are.

Posted: **Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:22 am**

3500 # Parts are on the counter at a lot of places; If your not Packing your own. :thumbsup:

Spring choice George?

Posted: **Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:57 am**

twisted lines wrote:3500 # Parts are on the counter at a lot of places; If your not Packing your own.
Spring choice George?

I have been happy with this kit https://compactcampingstore.com/product ... spring-kit . I am using them in their stock form of 1350lbs. They can be tuned to 1050lbs and 1650lbs as well.

Posted: **Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:34 pm**

Thank's for ALL the detail's :applause:

Posted: **Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:27 pm**

twisted lines wrote:Thank's for ALL the detail's

Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers

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