Squaredrop design

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Squaredrop design

Postby jelkins » Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:55 pm

Squaredrop design I am fixing to start building, thoughts?
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Re: Squaredrop design

Postby Pmullen503 » Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:27 pm

Hard to tell from the drawing, but are the wheels back far enough for proper tongue weight?
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Re: Squaredrop design

Postby jelkins » Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:37 pm

Pmullen503 wrote:Hard to tell from the drawing, but are the wheels back far enough for proper tongue weight?


It's at120" from tongue, I think it may be an inch or two forward but loaded with the everything on the front I think it will balance ok. Plus I'm looking at a 20/40 gallon water tank which I have room to move infront of the axle but not aft of so that can help with getting 10% to the tongue.
Or is that a bad plan?
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Re: Squaredrop design

Postby tony.latham » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:14 pm

It's at120" from tongue


It should be at the 40/60 point on the frame, regardless of your tongue length. I, too, think the axle is too far forward. If it's too far forward, as you may know, you will have a squirrelly-pulling trailer to the point of being dangerous.

and a 20/40 gallon water tank which I have room to move in front of the axle


And what happens when your tank is empty?

:thinking:

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Re: Squaredrop design

Postby Onajourney » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:39 am

A 6x12' without galley or much storage?
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Re: Squaredrop design

Postby jelkins » Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:32 am

Onajourney wrote:A 6x12' without galley or much storage?


First door in front is for fridge and other storage, second small door is for kitchen slide out, haven't got the details for it yet.
Storage is under the beds and a cabinet between them. (back cushion is actually a seat/bed)
Also, on the drivers side in the front will be batteries, charger, solar, and other storage.
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Re: Squaredrop design...my workarounds for a mistake in plan

Postby working on it » Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:52 am

Nice profile, but not a lot of storage space shown; I suggest getting a large capacity tonuebox to help. It'll help greatly with both storage and weight balance problems, IMHO.

Ever since I started building my 4x8 squareback (squaredrop) trailer, I've been struggling to achieve a decent weight balance, while overstuffing my trailer with all my gear. I finally achieved the balance I sought, but it took me a decade to reach it.

The 50"W x 60"L frame I used had to be extended to get a 4x8 floorplan (what I always regarded as traditional, and easiest to build using plywood sheets), but I made the (initial) mistake by adding 12" in front and 24" in the rear, making the axle centerline too far forward. I had thought that the 24" in the rear would be a good size (24"deep x 48" tall) for a galley/storage area, but I immediately overstuffed it with heavy items (permantly loaded: generator, A/C unit & ducting, Coleman gear, battery, spare fuel, Aquatainer, frozen goods cooler, etc.), which made the tongue weight about 40 lbs, total weight 1280 lbs (unloaded with perishables, clothing, main beverage coolers). Not good, at all. I had to make a single beam weight distributing set-up to be able to take the trailer on my first trip, even though I added 150 lbs of gear into the front of the cabin, to bring the total weight to 1430 lbs.

I continued to use the weight distributing hitch for years, while modifying the trailer and its' loadout, moving weight forward for better balance. There were too many changes to list here, but the best/most worthwhile contributors to getting a better balance were the tonguebox (loaded with battery, electrical cords, extra lighting, spare parts, some camping tools, probably adding 250 lbs) and the double-stacked racks, mounted over the tonguebox & spare tire, which really helped. Two canopies and my pantry box added over 140 lbs, alone.

Later additions brought the total weight up and up, but I made sure that they were either neutrally-balanced or forward of center, and now the trailer is done...nothing will be added, and the balance goal has been reached. I still tow with the weight distributing hitch (makes me feel safer with it attached), but it's no longer needed.
squareback trailer comparison.jpg
comparing dimensions (my 4x8's are in red)
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heavy-weight 4x8.jpg
evolution; adding equipment while achieving trailer balance
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2013 HHRv "squareback/squaredrop", rugged, 4x8 TTT, 2225 lbs
  • *3500 lb Dexter EZ-Lube braked axle, 3000 lb.springs, active-progressive bumpstop suspension
  • *27 x 8.5-14LT AT tires (x 3) *Weight Distribution system for single-beam tongue
  • *100% LED's & GFCI outlets, 3x fans, AM/FM/CD/Aux. *A/C & heat, Optima AGM, inverter & charger(s)
  • *extended-run, on-board, 2500w generator *Coleman dual-fuel stove & lantern, Ikea grill, vintage skillet
  • *zinc/stainless front & side racks *98"L x 6" diameter rod & reel carrier tube on roof
173193172890148599
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Re: Squaredrop design...my workarounds for a mistake in plan

Postby jelkins » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:21 pm

working on it wrote:Nice profile, but not a lot of storage space shown; I suggest getting a large capacity tonuebox to help. It'll help greatly with both storage and weight balance problems, IMHO.

'
A lot of good information, thanks.

I have the 30"x76" box in front of the main cabin for batteries, tools, fridge and other components. There is also a shelf at the top of this box for storage. There will be under bed storage in the front of the cabin and a portapoddy stored on the driver side with 5 gallons of water in it. I am worried about having the opposite problem you are.
With our current popup when loaded most of the weight is on the tongue, and I would like to avoid that with this design, but of course as already pointed out what about when there is no gear or water packed.
I am not sure how much the permanent weight vs load weight will be in that front box. Maybe a spare tire mounted eventually to the front as well.

Both the front bed and back seat ar 16 inches off the floor with planned storage under them. I plan to have them both raise up to get to the storage with external doors as well. There will also be a 20/40 gallon water tank, and Propane bottle.
There is a 60x29x20 cabinet in-between the front and back. Opposite the door.

I guess my real concern with the axle placement and design is most of my forward storage has a long arm were as the aft storage doesn't so it would take a lot more weight to offset a "to aft" axle and not much to offset a "to forward" axle.

I am quite familiar with weight and balance as I am a private pilot... I am just worried I will end up with the axle to far back then when loaded have to much weight on the tongue.

Thanks.
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Re: Squaredrop design

Postby twisted lines » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:08 pm

60” tall almost looks worth it :thinking:
Racking up; And Rapin foam
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Re: Squaredrop design

Postby jelkins » Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:37 am

It has begun :D


171639 171640 171641
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Re: Squaredrop design

Postby tony.latham » Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:28 am

I am just worried I will end up with the axle to far back then when loaded have to much weight on the tongue.


I assume you are aware of what happens with too much aft weight?



It's not like you can dip your nose and add power. :frightened:

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Re: Squaredrop design

Postby chopperwalker » Tue Apr 04, 2023 12:01 pm

It wasn't apparent to me in the responses but if you compare the first two sketches it looks like the overall length increased and the wheel was moved back relative to that.
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Re: Squaredrop design

Postby jelkins » Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:47 am

tony.latham wrote:
I am just worried I will end up with the axle to far back then when loaded have to much weight on the tongue.


I assume you are aware of what happens with too much aft weight?

Tony


yep, but I also don't want all the weight on the tongue either. As I have mentioned most of the storage is towards the front of the trailer making most of the weight there when loaded. So I am just trying to make sure it's good both ways, loaded and unloaded.


chopperwalker wrote:It wasn't apparent to me in the responses but if you compare the first two sketches it looks like the overall length increased and the wheel was moved back relative to that.


Actually I ended up shortening it about 10" inches to keep the axle closer to it's original placement to allow room for the door and bench seat behind it.
Currently the overall box length is 165" with axle at 94" which is 5" shy of the commonly used 60/40. Tongue length is currently 72" allowing some wiggle room there.
I used https://www.engineersedge.com/calculato ... alance.htm which should keep me just over 10% unloaded.

After looking it seems I have gone through a few variations... you are correct in that the second sketch is longer than the first, but I ended with the numbers listed in this post. 165" long axle at 94" and a tongue of 72".

James
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Re: Squaredrop design

Postby jelkins » Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:31 am

latest version

171781 171782
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Re: Squaredrop design

Postby chopperwalker » Thu Apr 27, 2023 11:53 am

I really like your layout. I've been drawing up a similar profile for my trailer but I am hung up on it having standard cargo use still. Part of me wants to move on and build out similar to your interior.
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