GAS...in your area again!!!

Things that don't fit anywhere else...

Postby caseydog » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:44 am

Larwyn wrote:
caseydog wrote:
pete.wilson wrote:Hey

I think a lot of what Boone says makes good sense but I do have one issue and we have already seen people comment about it in a different area/subject. People have said they don't like the sight of off-shore oil platforms from land especially in large numbers, OK. But what is the difference in looking at a large number of windmills (the big ones with 75' ft blades (I'm guessing here), it still comes down to being an eye-sore, it just depends in who's backyard this stuff gets built. Kind of like billboard signs along highways, we all like we them when we find a hotel or a gas station when we want one, but too many is an eyesore. I personally would not want thousands of windmills all across the US much less in KS, WY, SD, OK, TX and the other relatively windy states, or do you want a nuclear power plant in your back yard....their safe (useually). Something to consider when talking about points of view and energy plans :thinking:

Pete Wilson


People are opposing windmills in scenic areas, Like the coast of Maine, but most wind-farms are popping up in the central US, with Texas leading the nation, so far. The wind-farms I've seen in Texas are all in flat open prairies with very low population density.

There is a lot of area in Texas where wind-farms are not going to damage the scenery -- believe me. That also happens to be where the winds are most conducive to wind energy generation. Same goes for other areas on the central plains.

As for nuclear plants, they are relatively safe, and can be located in the boonies, too. The political hot-potato is the nuclear waste. Nobody wants that in their backyard.


Mr. Dog,

Some of us live in remote areas of Texas because they are remote areas of Texas. It matters not if one or 1,000,000 people are bothered by the sight, sound and carnage of the windmills. It is not worth the effect it has on the environment in which we have chosen , and paid dearly to live. The noise and activity of the windmills harm kill or scare away much of the wildlife, and clutter up the once pristine view. You, living in Dallas, apparently have no idea what effect a windmill farm has on everything which was previously "wide open nothing". But that is understandable as most "city folk" think that if they put the "sewer" next to the family with no neighbors, then, "who really cares?". I say put that sewer and the windmill on the "grassy knoll". Just because you cannot see that windmill from your driveway does not make it any bettter for those, or even the one, who can.

We do not need all that "stuff" here, it's the folks all crowded together in the city that think they should be able to put their support systems in our back yard so they do not have the consequences of their own requirements that are the problem. I say, if you want a fence post, cut down your own tree, if I need one, I will cut it in my own back yard.

If the neighbor lives too far away to see, that is not such a bad thing. It surely is not reason to put up your big city support systems there!!

"Nuke Plant in the Boonies"?? Do you have any idea how many people it takes to build, then rebuild to new requirements before completion, then rebuild to even new requirements (also before completion), and finally bankrupt and abandon a nuke plant? If it were "the Boonies" to start, it may become a ghost town in the end but it would surely destroy "the Boonies" in between. What you call "the Boonies" is what we call home.

It is okay if there is more than a mile between houses. But those two houses do not need a nuke plant to supply them. Okay, put it in town, not here.

One big advantage the city folks have is the traffic jams. Often they have a good excuse for not getting to work before the middle of the day, and it gives them lots of time for pipe-dreams......... :lol: :lol:

Just another view of things.


Are they building windfarms in Kerrville? Kerville is also in one of the prettier parts of Texas - the hill country. I haven't seen any in the hill country, which is fairly populated, too.

The windfarms I have seen in Texas are along 1-20 between Fort Worth and Midland -- and where they are, It's mile after mile of flat, empty plains. Here's one near Sweetwater in West Texas...

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Postby caseydog » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:05 am

Elumia wrote:Lawryn,

I'm not completely clear in your rant if you are against development in the "boonies" or just against "alternative energy" development. Maybe you are just offended that things get stuck "out there" where there are not enough voices to change things.

A few rhetorical questions: What's the difference between a windmill or an oil derrick in the "boonies"? One has to drill for oil where it is found, and a windmill has to be placed where there is wind. Neither one is good for the environment. About that view, I've seen plenty of people who live in the "boonies" clutter and spoil the pristine view with their rustic architecture, collections of used equipment and projects that are slowly finding their way back to the earth. Others build gigantic monuments to show us how precious they are. Each is equally an affront to me. Many dump trash, used motor oil and unwanted chemicals in their dirt, and burn up anything that will ignite releasing all sorts of foul gasses since they don't have trash collection. Just because folks live out in the boonies doesn't mean they are any better stewards of their land than the energy company erecting a windmill or oil derrick. If I take a drive to the country should I be more offended by seeing a wind farm or 7 cars dug into the dirt and called "art"? Who should be telling people and companies how to use their land?

I suspect, that the location of resources and cheap land is much more of a driving force to locate energy sites than putting them out where "city folk" can't see them. Nuclear plants need a source of cooling water. Windmills need wind. Refineries need to placed where the raw materials can be transported to them. Oil and gas wells are drilled where the stuff can be found, onshore or offshore. In the bay Area we have a collection of windmills out in the Livermore hills easily viewable for the suburbs. Most of this land was already ranch land (and still is). The "wildlife" had long been run off. I imagine most wind farms in TX are also being put on some rancher's land and not in national parks. Do you have a beef with your neighbors for selling out to the man? If someone found oil on your property would you allow them to develop it?

Airports tend to get build out in farm/ranch land and then the new development follows. This is typically followed by housing whose new residents then complain that the airport is too loud.....

Sewer treatment plants are usually located at the lowest point of the city, nearest the river, lake or ocean to discharge it once treated. Sh!t flows downhill, so consequently the cheapest way to get it from point A to point B is gravity. Again, I've seen that these tend to be developed before housing sprouts up around them. Of course, since there is a treatment plant nearby, that land is cheaper so poorer people move there. By the way, one of the City of San Franciso's newer sewer plants is located about a block from the beach in a nice neighborhood. They built it under the Zoo! Folks who live in the country get to have the "sewer" in their own yard, it's called a septic tank. They can dump whatever they want in their own sewer and discharge into the ground with little regulation. One thing to remember is that your waste leaches down into the groundwater (which can become part of the public water supply). Think about what you put in your "sewer" especially if you have your own well!

What would you consider the "boonies"? Nowadays, so many people want to get "away" from the city that the "boonies" are really just lighter populated urban areas. the only real "boonies" left seem to be government land! In California, the pressure of all this population growth is turning valuable farmland into subdivisions. Where are we going to grow our food? Are we going to get it from Mexico where fields are sometimes irrigated with raw sewage? In my county we have a "rural urban limit" around municipalities. outside the limit, properties are limited in how small they can be split. I believe it is currently 160 acres minimum. Now the only folks who can buy in are uber rich, or have owned land forever. These 160 Acre lots become a fancy winery or some rich guy's weekend home. Because of the limit, it is harder to create urban sprawl - we just move it to other counties. Upside for me is that I own a house in town. At least I can look over a fields of grapes rather than subdivisions and shopping malls.

I understand your concern about your neighborhood. It drives me crazy to see a huge solar facility developed on a green field site when there are so many other opportunities that wouldn't spoil open land.

Robert Kennedy Jr (staunch envronmentalist) was fighting windmills offshore on Cape Cod near his home. No solution is perfect. Just because someone paid dearly to locate themselves in a particular area doesn't give them the only say. Some things need to be done for the good of many at the detriment of a few. It's easier for all of us to be NIMBY once we have ours.....

Mark


Kerville is in the scenic Texas Hill Country. And, that area is quickly being developed for folks from San Antonio and Austin who want to "live in the country."

I do at least one drive of the Hill Country each year during Bluebonnet season. It is a beautiful place I wouldn't want to put windfarms there, either. However, big clusters of cookie cutter homes and McMansions "ranches" are popping up all over the Hill Country spreading out from Austin and San Antonio.
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Postby Arne » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:26 am

All good points. Bottom line; where is the land available that will disrupt as few people as possible.?

Years ago, when gas was $1.25/gallon, I had a discussion with a woman who thought gas was too high. I asked her if she would ever pay $2/gallon... her response was: "Never!!".

Well she is now paying almost $4/gallon. Still complaining about high gas prices. And still buying it.

Our country will do what it has to to maintain our standard of living (even if it maxes out credit cards). The rich of course will not suffer. Ted Kennedy, his clan and his friends, got the windmill farm killed because it would spoil their view.

If you live in a rural area where 'they' want to put something, you will lose.

Even as the news say our middle class is suffering, our Sunday ads push large screen tv's for a couple grand.
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Postby caseydog » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:07 pm

Oh, by the way -- City people aren't immune to energy related eyesores. Tarrant and Denton County sit on top of a major natural gas supply, and gas wells are popping up all over the place.

Fly into DFW airport, and look out the window as you land, and you will see dozens of new wells in all directions.

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Postby Nitetimes » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:57 pm

caseydog wrote:Oh, by the way -- City people aren't immune to energy related eyesores. Tarrant and Denton County sit on top of a major natural gas supply, and gas wells are popping up all over the place.

Fly into DFW airport, and look out the window as you land, and you will see dozens of new wells in all directions.

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That's also a win, win situation the the oil companies and the airport. Oil companies have a clear area to drill and airport gets paid for the oil lease.
Rich


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Postby Larwyn » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:04 pm

Okay, I never intended to imply that Kerrivlle is a wilderness area. But the population here is undoubtedly less than that of I35 in DFW during rush hour. During "rush hour" in Kerrville it could take as long as 10 minutes to get from one end of town to the other, but only if there is an accident to delay things. The only windmills here are left over from when they were used to pump water (some still are). And they are constantly building new high dollar residential areas here. I'm sure at some point the area's electrical demand will exceed the current availability. And then it would be time to put in some generation in the area. Wind and solar energy are some of the most expensive megawatts out there and can at times be quite undependable (expensive to build, if not to operate). Hydro is great where feasible. But there will always be a need for fuel burning power plants whether it be gas, coal, garbage, or nuke, something has to provide predictable, reliable energy to crank out the megawatts that people today think they need.

I'm just an old country boy who does not much like the way "the little guy" gets dumped on these days. I like being able to sit on my patio behind the house and drink coffee while being watched by 20 or more deer and a half dozen squirrels every morning. I enjoy the areas where you can still look out and see nothing but hills and sky. I have no authority to tell you you can not put your plant on that hill, only a responsibility to let you know that I do not want it there. I never intended to get into a "debate" with the "big guns". I am very much "unarmed" for such activity and we all know that............. :lol:
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Postby caseydog » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:08 pm

Nitetimes wrote:
caseydog wrote:Oh, by the way -- City people aren't immune to energy related eyesores. Tarrant and Denton County sit on top of a major natural gas supply, and gas wells are popping up all over the place.

Fly into DFW airport, and look out the window as you land, and you will see dozens of new wells in all directions.

Image


That's also a win, win situation the the oil companies and the airport. Oil companies have a clear area to drill and airport gets paid for the oil lease.


The ones near airports aren't bothering anyone. But, they are popping up near residential areas, and people aren't happy about it...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... -gas_n.htm

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Postby Miriam C. » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:07 pm

:D :lol: :lol: :lol: Donald Trump says oil will go down like a rock over the lack of a bill. :thinking: It worries me that Trump agrees with me. Should it worry me. Now he is saying drop faster than "ever in the history". :thinking: I think I might fill my truck up soon.... :lol:
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Postby Joseph » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:56 am

Getting back to the original subject of this thread...

$3.19 in Excelsior Springs, MO.

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Postby pete.wilson » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:16 pm

hey

Miriam,

If your right I might go out and buy me another 4x4 Suburban like the one I had, in which I never really wanted to get rid of in the first place. :twisted:

Pete Wilson



P.S. If you like to read. I recommend going back to reading our 3 most important American documents. The Declaration of Independance, the Bill of rights and it's amendments and the Constitution. You will be amazed how far thinking the founding fathers were and how much we have degraded what they stood for.



Gas: $3.36 a gallon in Ottawa, KS
Why hasn't anyone found a dead bigfoot? When was the last time you found a dead deer, bear, coyote, fox, squirrel, etc. that died in the woods.........Hmmm.
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Postby Miriam C. » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:24 pm

pete.wilson wrote:hey

Miriam,

If your right I might go out and buy me another 4x4 Suburban like the one I had, in which I never really wanted to get rid of in the first place. :twisted:

Pete Wilson


Pete, the speculators and short sellers will be back. You also need to remember that the "Donald" has filed bankruptcy how many times?????? My brand of sarcasm---sorry

Oh and that SUV---if credit gets "tight"---read that as normal, all those middle men who jack up the price of the cars to sell to "no credit check" "we finance anyone" folks will be dumping them real cheap. (course there is $25 billion for the car finance industry)

Just needs to get balanced right. :twisted:
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Postby asianflava » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:32 pm

Stopped and got gas at Sam's before I got to Denver it was $3.41. After I turned off the interstate, I passed a gas station in Pueblo that had it for $3.31 plus 3 cents off with my Kroger Card.

After the Last Gasp gathering, I topped off my tank before heading home. $3.28 is as cheap as I've seen for a long time. I figured I was already there, may as well fill it up.
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Postby caseydog » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:53 pm

Miriam C. wrote:Pete, the speculators and short sellers will be back.


BTW, short sellers bet on the price going down, nut up. ;)
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Postby pete.wilson » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:05 am

Hey

I was wrong it's still $3.39 in Ottawa but today was $3.21 in Olathe, which is usually the other way around.

Pete Wilson
Why hasn't anyone found a dead bigfoot? When was the last time you found a dead deer, bear, coyote, fox, squirrel, etc. that died in the woods.........Hmmm.
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Postby Dixie Flyer » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:37 am

$4.09 -- Atlanta.
I poked it with a stick..........
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