Some basic design questions

[RandyRP]

I am in the process of trying to understand various construction methods and am hoping that some folks will be kind enough to help me learn. In particular I have been following Thomas’s woody Cub/Modernistic and Michael’s Luxotear. Ultimately I want to build something similar to those profiles, but may opt to go with something like it or a cross between it and a Kenskill.
Question #1
With Thomas’s build I noticed he used 2 X 2’s to support the floor, but one of them runs along the side of the floor (plywood edge). (This seems like the way an original Kenskill was built). As such the plywood is bolted directly to the frame. On Mike’s build he used 1 X 4’s underneath the plywood and the 1 X 4’s sit on top of the frame. I realize that there are many ways to go. But my question is in the case of a design like Thomas’s. there would/seems to be a need for additional clearance between the axle and the outside of the frame, in order to compensate for the fact that the 2 X 2 is outside of the outer frame too. So my question is : Is this good ? and if so how much narrower could one get ? I cam across a really nice rebuild of a Kenskill and there seems to be a fairly large gap ?
Question #2
On Danny’s ( Ed Ester Built ?) trailer I followed his build link and was intrigued by the under floor board battery trays. This got me to thinking about clearances in general. I think it is a great idea and ideally would like to wire two golf cart batteries for a total of twelve volts. Are there minimum overall clearances that are advisable I want to use a torsion axle, and build some under floor storage too, but am wondering if this is do able with say a floor like Luxo-Tear ? I read the threads under the sdtripper2’s index section and Madjack mentions that such an arrangement (under floor storage) would only yield 4 inches with a torsion axle. (Although he reference a particular design which I was not familiar with). I am thinking as long as it maintains a certain minimum, I might be able to pull it off, but I do like the low ride look and thus would be looking to design it as low as possible without any of the under floor goodies. Any thoughts ?
Question #3
While looking at Dean A ‘s gallery (BTW congratulations on an excellent build, in that a Gruman ?) I noticed a cross section of various ways to execute the galley hatch seal that Mike drew. (Thanks for putting in there BTW and to Mike for drawing it) While I understand that there are many way to do it. I seem to notice on trailers that use insulated walls there seems to be a number of folks that do it a little differently, but it is hard to tell. I would love to see some real close up photo’s. I plan on using either Grant’s hurricane hatch or the So-Cal geared hinge. (not sure that it matters for this)
Question #4
Is it possible to cut a Cub/Modernistic profile from 4 X 10 sheet or would it come out goofy at the top? It seems like I may have a problem sourcing 5 X 10 and would like to save a bit too, if possible?
Lastly thank you to all for such a great forum. I am in awe of the fine craftsmanship I have seen on this site and swamped and inspired by all the ideas I have seen.

[madjack]

Welcome Randy to our little sandbox...now if I may.........
1) not sure of Thomas's floor build...BUT, think of the 2x2 on top of the frame and the outer skin coming down over the steel frame...I build with straight sheets of ply...no composite construction...the 1/2 ply floor comes out to the outer edge of the steel frame and the 3/4 ply wall uses a cleat to sit on the floor and come down over the side, covering the steel frame.....

2) think about the ground clearance of your vehicle...about 8"s is the least you would want for clearance and that is too low for my tastes...the 4"s I referenced was the total of the 2" steel frame and the 2" tube on the axle...which is all that you have in the "protected" area of frame/axle...with a 12" overall clearance, and a 4" drop, you would get and 8" storage area and an 8" ground clearance...by the way, Danny's Td is a Danny built tear, not an Ed Ester.........

3) I'll let someone with insulated walls chime in here...however, you might wanna checkout Steve Fredericks' Camping Classic Designs and build pages for the "lil Dinner"...his build CD is well worth buying!!!!!!

4) yes, that is all the higher it was to begin with...if you follow the advice Andrew gives in the "Design Library" for drawing ellipses you will be fine...due a lack of availability and cost for what is available, I don't use 10' ply but rather join a 2' piece to an 8' piece using epoxy and a spline, to get the 10' length...

5) there ya go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
madjack

[Dean_A]

Question #3
While looking at Dean A ‘s gallery (BTW congratulations on an excellent build, in that a Gruman ?) I noticed a cross section of various ways to execute the galley hatch seal that Mike drew. (Thanks for putting in there BTW and to Mike for drawing it) While I understand that there are many way to do it. I seem to notice on trailers that use insulated walls there seems to be a number of folks that do it a little differently, but it is hard to tell. I would love to see some real close up photo’s. I plan on using either Grant’s hurricane hatch or the So-Cal geared hinge. (not sure that it matters for this)

Thanks! Glad you like it. The profile is actually my own design, loosely based on the Kenskill profile, but simplified a bit to fit my skill level.

I actually drew that diagram of the hatch sealing methods. I created it in response to a question about how to fill a gap between the seal and the sidewall where someone (don't remember who) had notched their sidewall a bit too much and was not getting a tight seal, hence options 2 and 3, adding a second seal, or a shim between the hatch and the seal.

I know that there are other methods, and hopefully those folks will chime in. Although my cabin is insulated, I left my galley uninsulated. It seemed like a lot of extra work for not much payoff.

Good luck!
--Dean

[planovet]

3) I'll let someone with insulated walls chime in here...however, you might wanna checkout Steve Fredericks' Camping Classic Designs and build pages for the "lil Dinner"...his build CD is well worth buying!!!!!!

I have insulated walls and I built my hatch and seal as per Steve's plans. I think it's a great way to build. It's a solid seal and I like how water has to go up and over to get in (not that it will).

4) yes, that is all the higher it was to begin with...if you follow the advice Andrew gives in the "Design Library" for drawing ellipses you will be fine...due a lack of availability and cost for what is available, I don't use 10' ply but rather join a 2' piece to an 8' piece using epoxy and a spline, to get the 10' length...

I could not find 5x10 birch ply either but I could find 5x5. You could just splice the two together to get 5x10. I used Tightbond III and biscuits but epoxy and a spline IS better.

[bobhenry]

The profile was supposed to be a cubby style but morphed into a Chubby.
In the picture you will see 3 sheets of osb stood on end to make my 5' + by 10' sides. I simply joined them with 1x4 cleats at the lap. The 3/4 void was later filled with 3/4 foam board and the inside covered with 1/4" luan after the electrical was installed.



I ripped the sheet so the seams fell at the rear of the door and the galley wall.

[RandyRP]

Thanks Madjack

I get what you mean with the clearance if I went with say ten minimum - then I would only get a 6 inch drop. Bummer becasue I would really like to get the batteries under the floor. Storage would be nice too, but I am thinking AC on the tongue (in a box) so some battery weight behind the axle might balance things off.

Dean

Sorry, about the confusion on the drawings, they did help me. You nailed a winner with that profile, it really captures the vintage vibe of the tear drops.

Mark and Madjack

Two votes for Steve's CD sounds like good advice. I really want to design this thing myself. I have a profile I did several years ago, sorta a Kenskill/Modernistic vibe, but I need to learn particulars. So it sounds like Steve CD is just want I need, rather than specific plans per se.

Thanks for the advice guys it is much appreciated.

Randy

[planovet]

Two votes for Steve's CD sounds like good advice. I really want to design this thing myself. I have a profile I did several years ago, sorta a Kenskill/Modernistic vibe, but I need to learn particulars. So it sounds like Steve CD is just want I need, rather than specific plans per se.

Exactly what I did. I did most of the designing myself but the CD was helpful in a lot of ways, esp. in building techniques. Lots of helpful pictures also. Good luck!

[RandyRP]

Thanks Mark

I think that once I get the major stuff down, like trailer specifics, profile, skinning (alu for me or stainless ? ) doors, hatches, etc....It becomes a matter of trying to cram the galley full of systems...1) Camp Chef Oven 2) Engel Fridge 3) Sink 4) Batteries 5) Tankage and 6) AC....

Speaking of AC in reading about the pet cool it seems nice but $$$$ for what it is...I have read about problems with the 5,0000 BTU units and humidity. I am wondering if anyone has ever tried to set one on low and run it from a timer controled relay. Also I would like to box the unit into a plenum/duct type arangement . I have read all the indexed post but am wondering.

Randy

[Esteban]

Randy,

Best of luck with your project. I'll add my endorsement, too, for buying and using Steve Fredericks' CD. He also has a website for the people who buy his CDs. He's good about sharing ideas and answering TD building questions there.

I'm slowly building a Grumman II inspired TD. Steve's CD is full of building details and methods you can adapt to your own design. His "inside out" method of building components on a work bench is a time and back saver. I looked into using two 6 volt batteries under the frame, on trays like Danny's. It seems that 6 volt batteries are considerably taller, usually about 11" tall, than auto or deep cycle batteries. So, using them under the floor makes road clearance more of an issue. BTW, Danny PM'd me that he uses two 12 volt deep cycle batteries from Costco...providing plenty of power to run lights and a mattress heating pad.

A friend, John B., who goes by "jhb" here, has many of the features in his trailer that you want in yours. His TD is set up for easy boon docking with little need for campgrounds and utility hookups. Here's his picassaweb album. He replaced the ice chest seen in the pictures with an Engle electric cooler powered by a solar collector on the roof and two batteries in the tongue box. There's a water tank, pump and a water heater in his galley, too. To take a hot shower he attaches a shower hose to the kitchen faucet.

My trailer has a floor size of 5'3" x 10' 2". The walls are 4' 5" high by 11' long. The floor and walls are insulated sandwich construction. When you do sandwich construction it's pretty easy to join multiple pieces of plywood to the inner framework to make your floor or walls bigger than 4' x 8'. Once it's skinned in aluminum, or in my case fiberglass, what does it matter if it's made from one sheet of plywood or several?